Are you ready to step back into the Ol' Dirty Basement and venture through the darkest corners of American crime history? Get ready for a chilling ride as we pull back the curtain on Ted Bundy, one of the country's most infamous serial killers. From his twisted upbringing to the horrifying catamaran tale he used to trap his victims, we'll be peeling back the layers of Bundy's life. We'll dig deep into his gruesome crimes in Washington and Utah, revealing the bone-chilling methods he used to take and keep his victims.
Strap in as we dissect Bundy's heinous methodology, considering his potential hideouts and the sadistic pleasure he took in his victims' last moments. We'll explore the chilling possibility of Bundy's crimes being replicated in modern times, drawing eerie parallels between his tactics and those of predatory animals. We also take a closer look at Bundy's infamous Volkswagen Beetle, a key component in his monstrous acts, and ponder over the suspicious items found within it.
But our journey into the darkness doesn't stop at Bundy's crimes. We explore his daring escapes, survival tactics, and even dive into the peculiar theory of him being a terrible driver. We'll debate Bundy's public support during his trial and discuss the undeniable evidence that finally tied him to his heinous acts. Venture with us into the haunting world of Ted Bundy and unravel the sinister depths of one of America's most notorious serial killers. This is an episode you won't want to miss.
Sounds:https://freesound.org/people/frodeims/sounds/666222/ Door opening
https://freesound.org/people/Sami_Hiltunen/sounds/527187/ Eerie intro music
https://freesound.org/people/jack126guy/sounds/361346/ Slot machine
https://freesound.org/people/Zott820/sounds/209578/ Cash register
https://freesound.org/people/Exchanger/sounds/415504/ Fun Facts Jingle
Thanks to The Tsunami Experiment for the theme music!!
Check them out here
SUPPORT US AT https://www.buzzsprout.com/1984311/supporters/new
MERCH STORE https://ol-dirty-basement.creator-spring.com
Find us at the following
Are you ready to step back into the Ol' Dirty Basement and venture through the darkest corners of American crime history? Get ready for a chilling ride as we pull back the curtain on Ted Bundy, one of the country's most infamous serial killers. From his twisted upbringing to the horrifying catamaran tale he used to trap his victims, we'll be peeling back the layers of Bundy's life. We'll dig deep into his gruesome crimes in Washington and Utah, revealing the bone-chilling methods he used to take and keep his victims.
Strap in as we dissect Bundy's heinous methodology, considering his potential hideouts and the sadistic pleasure he took in his victims' last moments. We'll explore the chilling possibility of Bundy's crimes being replicated in modern times, drawing eerie parallels between his tactics and those of predatory animals. We also take a closer look at Bundy's infamous Volkswagen Beetle, a key component in his monstrous acts, and ponder over the suspicious items found within it.
But our journey into the darkness doesn't stop at Bundy's crimes. We explore his daring escapes, survival tactics, and even dive into the peculiar theory of him being a terrible driver. We'll debate Bundy's public support during his trial and discuss the undeniable evidence that finally tied him to his heinous acts. Venture with us into the haunting world of Ted Bundy and unravel the sinister depths of one of America's most notorious serial killers. This is an episode you won't want to miss.
Sounds:https://freesound.org/people/frodeims/sounds/666222/ Door opening
https://freesound.org/people/Sami_Hiltunen/sounds/527187/ Eerie intro music
https://freesound.org/people/jack126guy/sounds/361346/ Slot machine
https://freesound.org/people/Zott820/sounds/209578/ Cash register
https://freesound.org/people/Exchanger/sounds/415504/ Fun Facts Jingle
Thanks to The Tsunami Experiment for the theme music!!
Check them out here
SUPPORT US AT https://www.buzzsprout.com/1984311/supporters/new
MERCH STORE https://ol-dirty-basement.creator-spring.com
Find us at the following
Thanks for tuning in to the old dirty basement on today's episode. We're covering part two of Ted.
Speaker 2:Bundy. The man started in Washington, made his way to Utah, had the police hot on his trail, made his way to Colorado. I think he ended up getting captured.
Speaker 3:Maybe I mean this guy's might be in jail, he might be out of jail, he might be in the mountains, he might be in a far city area, I don't know.
Speaker 1:You'll never know. You'll know if you listen to the podcast and you'll find out. We hope you're enjoying the podcast and if you are, leave us that five star rating on Apple. You can leave us a written review on a Spotify five star rating and sit back, relax and enjoy Ted Bundy, part two.
Speaker 5:This is the old dirty basement home to the pottery madness, murder and mayhem. A terror filled train ride deep into the depths of the devil's den with a little bit of humor history and copious consciousness. I'm your announcer shallow throat. Your hosts are Dave, matt and Zapp. I love you, matthew McGunnie. All right, all right, all right, right over, right over right.
Speaker 3:Hey, this is Dave, Matt and Zapp, and welcome to the old, dirty basement where every week we cover a true crime murder or compelling story. So sit back, relax and comprehend. Hello, Hello my friends, Hello old dirty basement here to say hello, no what's going on?
Speaker 2:God damn, it's a hell of a greeting.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean just, it just came from me.
Speaker 2:It was a great day a grateful greeting.
Speaker 1:That's what it was.
Speaker 3:How you doing Dave, how you doing Zapp.
Speaker 1:Can't complain, man Ready to dig back into this one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I suppose I too cannot complain. And we're back to Ted Bundy, a criminal, so nice. We had to talk about him twice, twice maybe, thrice, maybe thrice. Wow.
Speaker 1:Who's to say First one got into a lot. Probably let the recap. There's a lot out there on this guy. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So actually touching on a couple of things we talked about in the first one, no touching. No, touching, no touching. That's during his conjugal well, not conjugal visits. He was hearing that during that movie. But there was a thing I brought up about a boat in the last one we talked about a catamaran and I didn't know, I couldn't remember what the name was, but I guess he did say catamaran. But we looked up catamarans and they're big.
Speaker 2:They come in. They definitely come in varying sizes.
Speaker 1:But not. I didn't see a size that would fit on a car.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I looked it up like the smallest one you can get is like 16 to 18 feet. So really when it fit on like the back of a car, plus they're like wide, they don't really fold very well it is it is interesting.
Speaker 2:So you can do a. One can do a search, internet search, and you can find items. Advertises catamarans they look like the equivalent of a pontoon boat with a engine on the back. I mean, they're small, they can again. They range in size. You can get one for less than a grand. But then there are the catamarans with which I am familiar, and these are big ass boats, I mean big.
Speaker 3:That's the one they do, like the those cups for, but maybe like that huge, yeah, the saline and stuff.
Speaker 2:There's no God. Usa cup or whatever it's fitting on a car.
Speaker 1:Well, in that, in that the story he came up with when he was like trying to lure these women, he did change it to back at his parents' house. So there could have been a deal with that where, oh, because the catamarans was at his parents' house, not necessarily on his car. So just wanted to clear up a little confusion.
Speaker 3:They're like what the hell are they talking?
Speaker 2:about? What are they talking about? Catamarans? He might just use the term interchangeably. True. Just as a general nomenclature. Yeah, just say a boat.
Speaker 3:Well, I think he used it because people really don't know what a catamaran is. You tell some lady there like, hey, you want to help me with my catamarans.
Speaker 1:She thought it was. That sounds like a really nice boat. Wow, are you French? Yeah, she thought it was a Porsche, or something. Yeah, precisely, he's like yeah, it's on my car.
Speaker 3:If she would have been like wait, what if somebody like really sailed Like I'm going? He can't fit that on your car, man, you're lying man, he's got his lyre.
Speaker 2:How are you getting a damn catamaran on top of that little Volkswagen bug? Right, right, right, you ain't got to lie, that's what she said exactly Exactly what she said.
Speaker 3:That was quoted.
Speaker 1:But that was just one of the many things we covered in the first one and I guess it's time to get into part two.
Speaker 3:Yeah, sure that was. That was really quick getting them into there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they just catamaran ran and let's go.
Speaker 2:We were catapulted, it is. I mean, there's so much to cover with this dude. We'll, we'll, we'll go as quickly as we can. But just in case, just to bring you back what we talked about in the first one, we talked about his early life, where he was born, raised. Fun fact, he was raised locally, relatively speaking, at Roxburgh, pa, by his grandparents.
Speaker 2:But he didn't stay long, did not stay long, moved out to Tacoma when he was four. Then we got to his formative years, when he was you know, some people say he was into animal cruelty and bullying other kids. Interestingly enough, others would say that he was relatively social and just a normal kid in in middle school and high school, all that stuff. Despite having been arrested twice for suspicion of burglary and suspicion of theft of a motor vehicle, mac graduated in 1965, made his way to University of Washington, majored in Chinese right, speaking Japanese, dropped out in 1968 and, with no ambition, no career, he ended up being dumped by his longtime girlfriend, diane Edwards. But fear not, he was able to swiftly meet a what's that called A rebound.
Speaker 1:Elizabeth.
Speaker 2:Cloepfer in 1969. And he ended up dating that broad for close to a decade. Anyway, with Elizabeth now in his life, he resumed college in 1970, changed his major to psychology. Once he got out he worked in politically appointed positions for a few years, attended law school at University of Puget Sound. In fact, thanks to those politically appointed positions he ended up traveling to California and in 1973, he ended up reconnecting with the chick that had dumped him when he didn't have, when he had no school, no career, no ambition, that Diane Edwards dated her for a handful of months. Then he dumped her.
Speaker 1:That's right. How'd he get the upper hand?
Speaker 3:He got her back. So is it safe to say this guy is pretty normal? Yeah, so up to the point where he started killing people Shit, yeah. Yeah, he sounds like you know a neighbor. He sounds like a regular guy, right. Not really anything that you would be like, wow, this guy's weird or no. I mean had girlfriends, he had friends, talked to people did outdoor activities, and I mean for a dude.
Speaker 2:I mean I'm no judge per se, but I mean he wasn't like ugly, he was a decent looking dude yeah.
Speaker 3:He wore like turtlenecks, like really nice turtlenecks and a corduroy pants. Ascotts yeah, look, we've done.
Speaker 2:We've done a lot of serial killers and we've seen some gnarly looking dudes. I mean real gnarly. Ed Gein alone is probably one of the gnarliest people.
Speaker 3:I've ever seen. Yeah, he has a look, yeah, has a look to him. But Bundy didn't have that look.
Speaker 2:I love looking at Matt's face. He's got this cup of coffee in his hand. It looks like he's just. When you mentioned Ed Gein, the look on his face it was like he just ate like the worst, like foul, stank food, and was ready to just vomit, yeah.
Speaker 3:The Gein thing was uh, yeah, I don't like that guy.
Speaker 1:I don't like this guy, the face only.
Speaker 3:But this guy was this guy was a sharp dressed man, if you're basing on looks.
Speaker 1:I mean, I would say he was probably the best looking guy so far.
Speaker 3:So far, ramirez.
Speaker 1:Most normal looking guy. You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:Ramirez was, but his teeth were all jacked up. Ramirez is Icaramba, yeah.
Speaker 1:Ramirez was a good looking guy, but had that, that bad boy, crazy look.
Speaker 3:He had like a meth mouth yeah.
Speaker 1:Like Ted Bundy looked like. Uh, exactly yeah.
Speaker 3:He had meth mouth. He had meth mouth. It was all like rotted teeth and he was cool until he opened his mouth and be like oh, he's real thirsty, Richie.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Bundy's the type guy that would help carry the groceries in, you know if he came over just looks like that nice guy. You know next door neighbor kid, that's just like a nice guy. And uh, ramirez, looked like a badass. Like you know. He'd come over like sneak weed up in your room and shit like that.
Speaker 3:But Gacy was like he looked like a old uncle, like a weird uncle or something. Yeah, gacy, or like a priest. Yeah, and he had a. He had a kind of a normal look to him, but he still wasn't like like a Bundy type.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, no, absolutely not.
Speaker 2:I mean, bundy was hiding it in plain sight oh my God, Like he looked at him. Yeah, Like everybody. Like we're saying here he's normal. That's what.
Speaker 3:I'm saying there's nothing, there's nothing that we look at and and anybody in the world that would know this guy, just be like, it's just, you know, not even saying he's a weird guy. Right, he's a guy.
Speaker 1:But this way with him. It was very hard to believe, I think for the people around them, just cause of how he presented himself and everything else. If any of this is true and I guess we'll find out, I guess we'll find out Well, so.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean? We're just wasting time.
Speaker 2:I mean the guy didn't. Well, we'll get there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we'll get, there, we'll get there.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, speaking of you know, sneaking into rooms, maybe you know, bringing you some weed or hanging out. He ended up sneaking into Karen Sparks' room, who was at the university of Washington this was his first criminal history Snuck into this broad department, beat her with a metal bar that he'd taken off her bed and then he jammed it up for her magical lady parts. She was. She survived, but she was left with permanent brain damage and hearing and vision loss. Well, I mean, once you get the taste just a little taste.
Speaker 2:Then he got into the murders. He ended up killing I mean one after another, like almost it looks like like one per month, like just to get his fix in and went through Linda Healy, donna Manson, susan Rancourt, roberta Parks, brenda Ball, george Ann Hawkins, janice Ott and Denise Nazlin, and that's just eight back to back to back and Janice Ott and Denise sorry, nazlin were- same night Sounds like it's at with the cast. Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it does.
Speaker 2:Really, it is man it really is.
Speaker 1:I mean it's, yeah, it's.
Speaker 2:It's hard to believe, like between February 1st of 1974 and July 14th, that dude killed eight women.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's hard to believe that number. You know what I mean and that short amount of time. You know.
Speaker 3:So we're popping from that to where are we starting today?
Speaker 2:Well, we're yep, let's see Before we pop off. Though he did move to Salt Lake City, Utah, to reconvene and further his legal studies, maintain a job of all places at State of Washington's Department of Emergency Services, which is one of those entities responsible for searching for missing persons of all things. Well, while he's hard at work furthering his legal studies, lo and behold, some bodies were discovered on September 6th 1974. Two hunters discovered the remains of the last three women he'd killed. That'd be George Ann Hawkins, janice Ott and Denise Nazlin, near the Lake Sammamish State Park.
Speaker 1:And that's where we left off, and I should have asked. I was thinking about this before the episode. They never really said for sure, but I'm assuming he went to Utah to escape the heat that was on at that time but they never really said you know for sure, that's what it was, or what his reasoning was, or anything like that. I would assume that would have to be it, that he knew they were on them. Sure.
Speaker 3:Oh, absolutely this guy. Definitely he did not want to be caught. No, no, absolutely, Because there's well, there are some murders. They say like they're doing it like the T's, or they're doing it like they kind of have it in them to be caught, or trying to I don't know.
Speaker 1:You think none of them.
Speaker 3:Well, some of them get to a point where they want to get caught that's what I'm saying where they want to get caught because they want to tell their story. That's fair. Yeah, that's fair.
Speaker 1:I don't think they realize it. It's kind of like what's that word? Non, where you don't you know. It's like subconsciously.
Speaker 3:Because then I mean.
Speaker 1:They're doing like getting real sloppy and just doing dumb shit.
Speaker 2:The obsession takes over.
Speaker 3:Or just yeah, to be able to tell your story one day, or like look what I did.
Speaker 2:It's like American Psycho, right, right, yeah.
Speaker 1:He just gets sloppy and sloppy Just like it, or did he do it?
Speaker 3:Oh, just like Americans like.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so did it go. So I'm sorry. So move to Utah, and that's where we're at now, yep.
Speaker 2:So do move to Utah, maybe to escape the heat. Maybe you just thought to yourself, if the heat isn't even on, Right. Because again these chicks went missing and they only hunters. Not even policemen hunters found these bodies.
Speaker 3:Utah's rather cool too, so maybe it was to escape the heat. One other thing Nice temperature. Yeah, nice temperature, sure, nice climate.
Speaker 1:One other thing too he was an avid skier. Yes, he was he loved the ski, so maybe he was there to ski as well.
Speaker 2:See you at the ski club. All right, so now in Utah, leaving Washington behind poor Nancy Wilcox, a 16-year-old girl from just outside of Salt Lake City, utah, on October 2, 1974. This girl was abducted, taken back to his apartment and strangled. So to be clear, that's strangled to death. Yep.
Speaker 2:Now, but a couple of weeks later, he comes across Melissa Smith, a 17-year-old girl from the same place just outside Salt Lake City, Utah. On October 18, 1974, this poor woman was abducted, raped and sodomized. Her body was found nine days later, with her head and body having been beaten with a crowbar.
Speaker 3:They say Bundy, like the whole crowbar thing, he used that a lot. Oh yeah, they say a lot of people said in his murders. But he wasn't trying to murder with the crowbar, just knock him out. Yeah, that was the point where he just wanted to get him out so he could move them around to get him to where he could choke them out. Truth, I think that was his thing, yep, I mean that dude was into that, yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, I know his thing too was when he murdered he liked to watch the life leave him and all that. He was one of them guys. I think with the Ripper they were saying he would do the killing part real quick. It was more about the aftermath.
Speaker 3:The aftermath, yeah.
Speaker 1:The brutalization and I think with Bundy he enjoyed that power like seeing it the life leave their body. You know what I mean and all that. There'll probably be some things when we get into the actual evidence and things they found. It's wild stuff.
Speaker 2:There's a, so we, just as we're going through the weekend here, right before Halloween, there, of course, was a Harry Potter marathon, on which I, of course, watched Right, and there's always this, this one phrase at Voldemort who's the bad guy?
Speaker 1:Right, no face, kind of that's right A very flat nose.
Speaker 2:He says to Harry when Harry escapes, is there in the graveyard. At one point he says you know, don't you turn your back to me, come, come. I want to see the, I want to see the light. Leave your eyes. That's this, this, ted Bundy, that's what the wand battle.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the turn on yeah Makes sense, I guess, so yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, not surprisingly not, but two weeks later he comes across Laura Amy, another 17 year old girl, this one from Lehigh Utah. On Halloween, october 31st 1974. She was abducted while hitchhiking home from a Halloween party. Her body was found nearly a month later, having been raped, sodomized, strangled and beaten. Now the medical examiner determined she had died only a few days earlier, meaning she'd been killed approximately 20 days or so after she'd been abducted.
Speaker 1:So he kept this one alive.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And just kind of.
Speaker 3:Yeah, see what that sounds like. Does that make sense, though, with killers?
Speaker 1:Well, maybe he relates, makes sense with the trucker, the trucker killer.
Speaker 2:We've done. We've definitely seen that before.
Speaker 3:But for a guy like him living a normal life, where would he keep somebody for 20 days?
Speaker 1:I'm out in the woods. I mean, who knows, he got to tie her up. I mean I hate to be kind of gross about this or think about this, but maybe, like some, he fancied more than others and he was like I got to keep this one around. I have a thing for her. Maybe she was one that you know.
Speaker 3:It's a very sick mind, Dave.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm just being honest, this is a sick guy.
Speaker 3:No, I know.
Speaker 1:But maybe some he's just like well I know with Dom, or that was like his whole thing. Yeah, that was his whole thing, he had one guy that he got rid of real quick. He was like man, I'm not even attracted to this guy, but then some of them he wanted to, so like watch movies Stick around. You know what I mean so make some Kool-Aid. Right, right, I don't know the bottom eyes Sure. That Dommer thing. Let me try this. What?
Speaker 3:are you doing, man Nothing? Just sit still, just sit still.
Speaker 1:I got a drill here, let me, let me see something that was so freaky, that Dommer thing which we did, you know, right around when the show was out. But since then there's always these memes of him showing when he would show them the Exorcist 3 and he'd put the tape in and make them watch, like how was this thing? Like he would have them in the bedroom and like you're going to watch this over and over and over and over again.
Speaker 1:But they take that and switch it out with, like what, our NFL playoffs or whatever. They'll put something on the screen and just use it as a meme. But some of these victims, I think maybe they just they're more into than others- so, maybe with this one he was just.
Speaker 3:But for me just reading about this guy so far, the stuff that the murders that they pinned to him, this would be something completely out of the ordinary. Or like where could somebody living a normal life like he's not a loner usually had like growth? He really didn't have like a study apartment and then I like knew about, like where was his?
Speaker 2:Oh no, he was with that chick, that single mother of one. Yes, elizabeth Klofer.
Speaker 3:So that's what I'm saying. He had a place of that he lived. It's not a place where some of these other guys lived. They were single.
Speaker 2:I mean, look, you can go out in the woods, you could.
Speaker 3:You can. You can put somebody in a tent somewhere, but not in those places. There was a lot of people, maybe.
Speaker 2:Maybe. Yeah, you're right. I mean, you figure, if his, if three bodies were found at a state park. There's a lot of open space in a state's park and not just a state park, let alone like the wilderness.
Speaker 1:You're talking out there Acres in his back in the 70s. In the 70s he must have developed.
Speaker 3:See, that's another thing, though. In the 70s in the wilderness, one of the most like a place where anybody could pretty much get rid of a body is out in the wilderness, because you're figuring you put somebody out there within, like we talk about the coyotes out there, the wolves there's. I don't know if there's, what are the panthery things, Nittany lines, shit Right, like there's stuff out there that will eat a body quickly. Sure, mountainized bobcat, yes, anything like that. So that's where a lot of bodies were disposed of. And just because you're finding bodies doesn't mean that it's bunnies dropping people there. In Florida they give them to the Gators.
Speaker 3:Yeah, gators, or throw them in a river or a lake, whatever they got to do. But, I don't know. This just sounds like out of the ordinary for him, trying to keep somebody for 20 days.
Speaker 1:I don't know at what point his girl that Elizabeth, if she was still living with him, maybe at that time, maybe at that time she wasn't around.
Speaker 3:See, I don't know, that's why, like I knew, I knew that's where he was. He was with her for a while, but I didn't. He wasn't like a loner, though he had girlfriends. He had friends, people to stay with, and I think there was nowhere to put somebody for 20 days, unless you sit out in the middle of the woods somewhere. So she was in.
Speaker 2:Washington. She remember she had a kid man. That's what I'm saying, yeah, so this guy at this point was hanging out in Utah going to school.
Speaker 1:Right, that's what I'm saying. She might not have been there, but she was really close to her kid and stuff too.
Speaker 3:They said he was like a great father figure for her.
Speaker 1:No, he was. Yeah, for sure, but at this time he could have kept this growing as a part of me.
Speaker 2:True. Who's the say. Who's the say? You don't even know. Well, now we come up to his fourth Experience, shall we say. While in Utah, the lovely Deborah Kent, a 17-year-old from Bountiful Utah, on November 8th 1974, she was abducted after leaving a school play. She was taken back to Bundy's place where he kept her for some time before killing and dismembering her. Searchers were only able to locate her kneecap.
Speaker 1:Well, there you go, her kneecap. That tells you everything you need to know about the one before then.
Speaker 3:To see Bundy's place. I didn't know he had a place of his own.
Speaker 1:But not only that, but that tells me that that girl wasn't there at that time, or you know what I mean. At least if she was there for some time, he didn't have a roommate or anybody living with him?
Speaker 3:And where was the kneecap? Was that located like? In his apartment, or did they find, like, somewhere in the wilderness or what? Is that something I'd have to look up to in research we might have to find that one.
Speaker 2:We might have to phone a friend to find where they found the kneecap.
Speaker 1:Another one on this app and we'll get to it later, but just a little tease on this. This is gonna tie in the one a little bit later. This happened four hours after another incident on the same day. So, we'll tease.
Speaker 2:That that's right, that's right.
Speaker 1:That'll come up a little later An incident.
Speaker 3:You say See, the only reason from some of the stuff I read about Bundy, like he wasn't the one he said something about you know, you don't like shit where you eat kind of thing, so I don't. That's why, like these two are some of the ones that like struck me as is that really? But then again, if you're in that, if you I mean the guy's psychotic, is he psychotic?
Speaker 1:I don't know what to say, but when he was in Washington state, he was doing it within a mile or so of where he lived. So for him he was like shit man. They're never gonna catch me, nobody's gonna look at me.
Speaker 2:They didn't catch me there, why would they? How would they catch me here?
Speaker 1:Sometimes the best place to hide is in plain sight. True, these people, no like. They look at Ted like there's no way, like Ted's like an upstanding guy and this and that. So I'm not shocked that he was doing it like, right where he's at is convenient.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know so since you mentioned that now again, I think for everybody's sake it should be noted that the police in multiple jurisdictions were on old Ted's trail by now. I mean, they had a detailed description, they had a sketch of him, they had the make and model of his car and the color, all that good stuff. And in addition to having been identified as a suspect by a coworker and a professor at his school, this poor guy had been his girlfriend. That that clover had dropped the dime on him three times. Three times Nonetheless. Police didn't care, police didn't believe any of them.
Speaker 3:Well, they're saying clover kept saying about the car or something. Did they say that that was the wrong color, the wrong make and model? They're like that. That sounds close, but I think the car's wrong. So it's not who we're looking for, that's what it was. That could have been something that was.
Speaker 1:It was after that some, some ammage.
Speaker 3:Some, some ammage. Yeah, some sandwich After that.
Speaker 1:After that incident that she that she had made the call. Anonymous call.
Speaker 3:But then a lot of her friends and stuff too, thought that Ted was like the coolest guy in the world, like. And then she was like am I going crazy? Like do I think? Is it something I want to know? There's cause there's that movie and stuff like you said with with her and Zach Efron. But I wonder what it was that that she knew from being like intimate with this person or like being that close to this person, something that had to been off, where she was like damn it gotta be him.
Speaker 1:I think it was just the picture, the sketch, and then also there was an incident that happened, that he was away and during the time of the one. And she was like well, wait a minute, where were you at? And then put the two and two together.
Speaker 2:So that there was what you had alluded to earlier. There was a happenstance before Ms Kent, before Ms Deborah Kent. I mean, how are police going to get a detailed description? How are they going to get a sketch of this guy and his car?
Speaker 1:Oh, that one, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:And one people too down the road were like that could have been anyone Like. They looked at that picture like the real sketch and put it to like him. But they put it to like 20 people in that area and they're like it could have been any one of them Sure or Larry from three yeah, larry, from three.
Speaker 1:they all kind of look at like true, and a lot of VW bugs flew. Yeah, that was very popular.
Speaker 2:Despite the awful color right. There were a lot of VW bugs. So, no matter what, though, despite police not believing any of these people, despite police believing that this guy didn't fit their profile or their essentially their expectations, like they expected some shitty dude, some guy who's down on his luck, somebody right, some keen dude at Guine wannabe, they definitely didn't expect mild mannered, handsome tadbunty. Law student man, yeah, educated Right Political appointee.
Speaker 3:Political appointee. Yeah Right, I mean, come on, dude, working right under your nose the guy's right there Connected dude.
Speaker 1:And he was involved in a church in Utah and he had a lot of support of those people at the church.
Speaker 3:So what you're saying now, too, is very similar to Gacy. These guys that get away with stuff like this cause they're in the community, they're out there, they're face to face with people.
Speaker 1:For sure, damn, you don't want to be a loner and you look real suspicious.
Speaker 2:Nonetheless, there were in fact now. This wasn't exactly the stone ages. They were starting to use computers and, amazingly enough, the databases and the queries all pointed to Bundy.
Speaker 1:I mean, it just took more time to put it together.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they were running like tape drives and shit.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Dial up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's real to real.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 1:Two weeks later.
Speaker 2:Well, nonetheless, while they continue to search for him, this guy makes his way out of Utah and makes his way to Colorado, Alas. He comes across the path of Karen Campbell, a 23 year old from Snowmass, Colorado. On January 12th 1975, this poor woman went missing and was found a month later Naked and dead near the Wildwood Lodge Resort, with skull trauma and stab wounds.
Speaker 1:So a little bit on this one. She was on vacation with her fiance at the time. And her fiance had children to a previous marriage, I guess, and they were after dinner hanging out at the lobby of this Wildwood Inn and the last time that the fiance saw her she was like hey, I want to go up to the room and get a magazine out of the room and jumped on an elevator and that was the last that he saw her.
Speaker 2:Jesus.
Speaker 1:So it was at that point that she snagged her out of the hotel. Yes, so there was an eyewitness that later on you hear an eyewitness that said that he had saw Ted Bundy on the elevator somebody that fits that description on the elevator so yeah, so they tied that one to Bundy later on down the road.
Speaker 3:That how you said tied to Bundy. That tied them into Bundy with the description and stuff like that. Another thing, I guess when they talked to him after one of his captures or whatever, he said something that was like kind of like stood out to one of the detectives. He was saying how full moon was key. They were like what do you mean full moon? What do you mean full moon's key? And he said he liked to do things where you could see a little bit better at night, more light. So he would try to do things that way, because all these woods he's very involved, like a lot of these bodies are found in wooded areas. And that was something that struck one of the investigators like so you need a full moon for what?
Speaker 1:Visibility.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he's like. I just enjoy doing things in the full moon.
Speaker 1:So maybe that's where that whole werewolf adage comes from, that you know all that bad shit goes on. Or they say, like crazy shit happens on a full moon. Sure, maybe it's because there's more light.
Speaker 3:It's like well, that's what I think he was. Yeah, he said full moons were key and that was, so I think he could see what he was doing or able to move bodies where you know.
Speaker 2:Without flashlights.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you go outside on full moon like damn full moon. You can see anything.
Speaker 2:I love that shit. I love when it's all bright. Yeah, at night, that's awesome.
Speaker 1:I was away in the mountains of Sullivan County this weekend.
Speaker 3:Oh nice.
Speaker 1:With not much light pollution and that's amazing what you can see out in the wilderness and it's amazing to this day on that drive up there. Now we're in central Pennsylvania, talking about wilderness and like areas Like I can imagine out in these areas, which are much more, you know, desolate and broader areas, that there's a lot of places you can go, just disappear and nobody's gonna find you or disturb you Absolutely.
Speaker 3:You know Appalachian Trail.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, here in PA, I mean PA, I don't really think of it. It is a big state, but you know they think of it as like like these places out in the Midwest and all that where you can just get like really lost out in the wilderness or like yeah, colorado.
Speaker 3:It's the old days.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of holes in the desert. Yeah, it's wide open spaces wide open.
Speaker 1:I have a friend that goes hunting on these big expeditions in Alaska and now he's set up there. You can get lost, big time lost, and never find your way out. Like you're gonna. You know what I mean. Hell, yeah, I think in Pennsylvania, after you know a little bit of travel on foot, you'd find civilization or something, or you would run into those towers, or whatever they say, follow downhill or follow the streams downhill, you run into civilization somewhere Right Well.
Speaker 2:I don't know man.
Speaker 3:Think back to Southern County, think more about that damn full moon man.
Speaker 2:Think about how cool that would be to be like a werewolf or an animagus. I wonder if he was one of those. Like, if you if Bundy needed, like the, like Professor Lupin or Sirius Black, like he needed the moonlight to activate his super murder power.
Speaker 1:The transition yeah, oh nice, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 3:Could be. I'd rather be a vampire than a werewolf. Oh for sure, You're all suave, mercenary and shitty. You like, you like see somebody like you're like oh man, let me get you something to drink.
Speaker 2:You're like, yeah, that's on top of the hill, that's thanks you, little lady. Come here, little lady, give me a little low, ms Lady, we'll give you a net bikey bike. Well, this guy loved his and continued on in his stint in Colorado. Not but two months or so later we come to Julie Cunningham, not Joni Cunningham.
Speaker 2:I was thinking that, but Josh Julie Cunningham, 26 year old young lady from Vale, colorado. On March 15th, the Ides of March 1975. This poor woman disappeared and was never seen again, nor were her remains ever discovered. Now this was a claimed kill by Ted Bundy. They had no idea. Again, this is a missing person.
Speaker 1:Right. He just said they were like hey, how about her? And he's like oh yeah, I did that one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, you were in Colorado right around this time. What about this one? Maybe, I don't know. What do you think about that?
Speaker 3:man oh no, it's something like I was gonna talk about later on. Well, I guess we're getting to the later on in the story. No, it's cool, but fuck it, we can push it. All. Right, push it, it's cool. Man Just saying with Bundy how, again you say claim there was many Bundy's killings that were claimed and I think it was at the end of his life.
Speaker 3:We're gonna get to that part yet, but we will. It's a story, true story. But towards the end of his life, before they're gonna put the dude to death, they were coming to him with a lot of these stories about these people that were dead here or found a body here. There was somebody that was found over here. Hey, weren't you around this state at the time? Yeah, there was four killings that could be linked to you. Could. Was this you and he was getting. This was in the state of Florida. So there was a lot of people coming to talk to him saying, hey, we can try to work something out, Some sort of plea bargain. Let's put a lot of these missing persons things to rest.
Speaker 1:To rest. Yeah, there's families that are.
Speaker 3:Yeah, there's families that wanna know, that want closure, and I think for a lot of families now again too, even today, remember they used to have the milk cartons the missing have you guys been to any of on the Turnpike, to any of those? The Turnpike little? What are those called there? The?
Speaker 2:service plazas. Service plazas.
Speaker 3:They have those missing things. It's kind of like was it Lost Boys? No, was it? The Lost Boys Would Keep your Southern Line. Yeah, Lost.
Speaker 3:Boys. Yeah, when they had that town they had all those pictures up. It's very strange. I was there with my daughter. I even grabbed her hand more as we walked through because there was like it seemed like hundreds of missing person things on these Amber Alert. Yeah, like it's crazy. But I think even back then, like sometimes people just go missing we were talking about the woods and this and that. True For a lot of these families that Bundy were in these areas, I think to get closure, I think does the state or whatever work something out with him saying I mean, they lied to him because they fried the dude, but they were like look man tell us what we want to hear.
Speaker 3:Tell us what we want to hear and you'll get better treatment, which never happened, because the guy was an ass. But yeah, this was just something, I think, that gave closure to a lot of families.
Speaker 1:And he looks like you know I hate to say it, or he tried to. Well since.
Speaker 2:I'm already a douche. I might as well take a blame for this. I can't get any more douchey than killing all of these people. Yes, and I guess.
Speaker 3:And then they told him it would give you closure, give these families closure. So a lot of people was like, yep, that was me, yep, that was me. And a lot of them they didn't even talk to him about, supposedly again, allegedly, whatever that they just when he died, they were like this one, this one, this one, this one. They were in the areas he was in.
Speaker 1:It closes with their investigation.
Speaker 3:It closes the investigations.
Speaker 1:Yes, they're able to move on. Yeah, I mean, I can see where you're coming from.
Speaker 3:How do you know? But the missing, you don't even know the missing person thing, these missing kids, I mean this stuff has been going on Since. Remember that Walsh guy. Yeah. Like when his kid. They still never found like that guy. But if there was something that could give your family closure. Oh, they did Finally.
Speaker 2:Okay, cool You're saying Mike Walsh's kid, I think it was Brandon.
Speaker 1:Yeah, brandon Walsh, brandon Walsh. Yeah, they called it as Kelly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, good, here we are in the same month, month of March 1975. Incredible discovery Sculls and jaws of four of the women he'd killed in Washington were discovered. That's Linda Healy, suzanne Rancourt, roberta Parks and Brenda Ball. Their skulls and jaws were found, just by happenstance, by a group of forestry students in the woods at Taylor Mountain, washington. So he just had these heads, I mean just hanging out.
Speaker 1:Well, this was like on that documentary on Netflix, the Ted Bundy tapes. They have footage of the like. There's German shepherd dogs and all these officers going out in the woods, like it was like a huge search party, because once they found one or two, you know, they started finding what. All these people they're searching within a hundred feet of one another. You know what I mean. They showed the skulls and stuff there, like we talked about with these animals. That whole area was doing the work for them, all the animals in that area. You take the body out there and it would just be torn apart. It would have decomposed anyhow, but it just speeds up the process and I'm sure some of the bones got ingested by animals and then spread somewhere else and you know, but the skulls are a little too big.
Speaker 2:Maybe he went back to visit some of these places.
Speaker 1:Well, that too yeah.
Speaker 2:Maybe I mean there are creepy ass dudes, after they kill somebody, they'll go back. We did that. Dude from Stilton, yes, joey Miller. Joey Miller was into that shit.
Speaker 1:Well, he admitted to that right, Ted Bundy, that he would go back.
Speaker 2:Did he yeah? Who did he admit that to?
Speaker 1:I think in those tapes and stuff when we get there.
Speaker 2:but yeah, when we get there.
Speaker 1:I think that was a thing amongst these guys that relive the crimes and stuff. Why not yeah?
Speaker 2:Well, I don't know. So that was the middle of March or late March, Late March. They found those bodies and this guy's still in Colorado when he comes across. Denise Oliverson said, 25 year old, from Grand Junction, Colorado, on April 6th 1975, this poor woman went missing. Her bike and sandals were found but the body never was. This one is another claimed kill by Ted Bundy. He says he tossed her carcass in the river after he was done with her. This is just like the last one. Right.
Speaker 2:Just like Julie Cunningham, he moves on to Lynette Culver. Now this is real shit. He's a 12 year old girl from Pocatello, Idaho. I gotta believe that Idaho, like he was, he caught wind that somebody found those skulls, because he immediately goes out of Colorado, Makes his way to Idaho, comes across 12 year old Lynette Culver. On May 6th 1975, this poor girl disappeared from her junior high school. Her body was never bound Again. This is another claimed kill. He also claims that he raped, drowned her in a hotel bathroom and tossed her in a river as well.
Speaker 3:Now this was one where I saw a movie or whatever and it was him, with one of the people interviewing him and he said that this murder he actually said this murder was a mistake and he said that he didn't really like young girls. It wasn't his thing. He said that was a mistake. And the next one you're getting into is kind of part of that which he said. I never heard anything about that one, but he said this Lynette Culver, the 12 year old. He said that was his only mistake. He said the other ones I had were choices Interesting.
Speaker 1:Interesting, that's wild and he's moving state to state like this, the killer with a conscience Killer with a conscience right.
Speaker 1:He's moving state to state and this is back in the 70s and news doesn't travel as fast, correct, and it's more so like these states are not communicating back and forth and like it's not world news. I mean, maybe it is, but I don't know if it's on everybody's radar. So this guy's, if you're moving around like that people in these towns and they're not aware, you know, and I mean, like we just recently had that mass shooting in Maine or whatever, wherever it was was it in.
Speaker 1:Maine, and I mean it's like everybody knew within minutes, or you know the crime, no matter where you're at, you know there's a guy on the loose and you're aware of it. I'm just thinking back then, like these people in Idaho, or you know Colorado or Utah, maybe Utah when it's happening in Colorado, but before that they're not aware of a guy moving state to state.
Speaker 2:You know, I wouldn't be surprised if he found out but just by virtue of keeping up with people, that he was still in again politically dialed in or whatever, back in Washington, like hey, what's going on in Washington these days? Oh, I haven't talked to you in a while. Oh well, they found the skulls of these four chicks. Oh, no shit, says I, ted Bundy, out in Utah at the time. Well, thanks for filling me in.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:Sitting here thinking about something real quick. When you brought that up I mean, I know the times that we're in now like we've become pretty numb. It's like murder is killing.
Speaker 3:I mean there's been how many within the last week, just in our city that we hear just a few just in the last couple of days, with these guys now like knowing that they couldn't do this stuff today because of DNA, things like that. Is that why we see like these people going out, going like, I guess, post or whatever they say anymore See and I think if they, the more you put up a challenge, the more they'll want to overcome it.
Speaker 2:Like all right now they know that there's the ability for fingerprints or DNA or whatever. Okay, I'm gonna wear really long rubber gloves or I'm gonna wear like a full body suit or some shit.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but even like a full body suit, like the people you know what I mean?
Speaker 2:I don't know.
Speaker 3:there's a way, there's like I get what I'm gonna use a lot of bleach when I'm done. I get what you're saying with the challenge, but with the people that do this stuff, like the guy going and killing 12, 18 people in a matter of minutes at two different places and then, you know, offing yourself is that something they do today? Because-.
Speaker 2:No, this guy was just a fucked up dude. You're talking about the dude in Maine. Yeah, he was fucked up dude, yeah he was.
Speaker 3:I know he had problems and stuff, he was a veteran and things like that. But when these guys snap like is there something I don't know, like-.
Speaker 1:There's always gonna be psychopaths, I think what you're trying to say is are they different type psychopaths? Now, because you can't have this Because you can't have, like a killing spree like these guys. That goes on, and on, and on, and on and on.
Speaker 3:Yeah like within a week they'd be like all right, we found a hair follicle, we found a fingernail scratch. There is something that would give the person a way to be an APB out in a week.
Speaker 1:Here's the thing even if you're totally off the grid, no cell phone never had a DNA collected, no ancestrycom or any blood samples, anything even if you're totally off the grid, if you have a relative that by chance happened to give a sample and you leave, you're always gonna leave something behind.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:DNA. They're still gonna track you down at some point. Like there's nobody, I wouldn't think. Do you agree that could be totally off the grid and never be found?
Speaker 2:Not once you start doing funky shit, if you just keep to yourself.
Speaker 1:Like from a distant shoot on boom and move along. You know what I mean, like that. But these up close on personal murders.
Speaker 3:Those were the guys in DC. Remember the two guys that shot out of the back of that car.
Speaker 1:But even with that, you have ammo, you have a gun, but that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 3:Yeah, they found within like, was it a couple of months or something, or not even. But what was the last guy, the unibomber? What was his name? Kaczynski.
Speaker 2:Kaczynski.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he was kind of the one that was like off the grid, this and that, and they still came and found him.
Speaker 1:Right, eventually you're gonna get caught. Yeah, I mean, that's the only thing with these stories sometimes.
Speaker 2:Well, when you buy thousands of pounds of manure and you're not a farmer, they're gonna figure out what the fuck is this guy buying this for? Even fertilizer, whatever, what are?
Speaker 3:you buying this for dude. Back in the 80s and even the 90s you could go and buy like dynamite, Hell yeah, tnt, it wasn't a thing.
Speaker 1:Well, there was even a thing here. We'll get into later.
Speaker 3:But I just oh, go ahead.
Speaker 1:A thing is gonna come up here shortly in this episode that I'm like well, that one happened today.
Speaker 3:But yeah, it's just, I think today, like how our world, knowing none of these, could happen the way that they did. Thank God, but do people just lose it one day where they're just like you know what? I'm just gonna go kill some people today.
Speaker 1:Get it on and you see it?
Speaker 3:yeah, you see it often much too often.
Speaker 2:It's true, it is absolutely true. This guy moved on from Lynette Culver, the 12 year old mistake you he had said to Susan Curtis. This one was a 15 year old who was visiting Provo, utah, in June 28th 1975. This one, like the two before, went missing. Body was never found. This is yet another claimed kill by Ted Bundy.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I don't think he did that one, just that, I'm no lawyer or anything Okay.
Speaker 2:So we've talked about I think already right, like how he, how he did this, or we've touched on a bit, but this is it's the same MO over and over and over and over again, where he just basically just pretended to be injured or in need of some sort of assistance, like he would have these fake casts, arm slings, crutches, would lure the chicks to his car. Hey, can you come over here and help me? Can you come over, I can get him. It was the same thing over and over and over again.
Speaker 1:Are there any animals in the wild that do that, that use vulnerability to lure in their prey or their predator, which becomes prey you? Know what I'm saying, women. Women do that. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:There's that one fish that looks like he has like a worm and they get close to it and he opens his mouth and he's like there you go, it's the.
Speaker 2:Venus flytrap.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the Venus flytrap Looks like it just yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm a flower. I have sweet juices on me.
Speaker 1:Come land on me fly. And then yep, yeah. Little shop hours right.
Speaker 2:Just like it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean that's definitely his MO is the is to look vulnerable and look like you know, and most people are kind hearted. Oh, let me help you out. You want to help them, Sure?
Speaker 3:Or hold the door.
Speaker 1:You know, what I mean. So I yeah, definitely a guy was smart, and there's no doubt.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, maybe not too smart. No, Because not, but I don't know.
Speaker 2:Maybe a month a month and change. Later, on August 16th 1975 in Utah, an officer sees a car that fits Ted Bundy's car's description just creeping around this development and then, as soon as that car sees the cop car, he slams on the gas and drives away. Now, let's not forget, this car is a VW bug, so he's not going to go that quickly. So the cop catches this guy, pulls him over, has a look into his car. What does he see? First thing he sees he knows that the front passenger seat is removed and it's sitting in the back seat. Not only does he find that, he then finds a crowbar, handcuffs, trash bags, rope, an ice pick, a ski mask and a panty hose mask.
Speaker 1:What was the front passenger seat taken out for? What do you think in the back seat? So you're saying like it was just a driver's seat? The stick shift and no passenger seat is just thrown in the back seat.
Speaker 2:So he removed four little nuts out of the lag bolt sticking out of the floor. So you just removed the seat and you had it sitting in the back, just sitting back there.
Speaker 3:Yep, I've seen. The actual car was in Washington DC at the time. It was probably about 12 years ago.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's a fun fact on that.
Speaker 3:But yeah, I actually saw the actual Volkswagen bug there and it had like a weird or it was at the Crime Museum in Washington DC.
Speaker 1:Did they have a front seat in it?
Speaker 3:No, it did not. His front seat, driving seat, was there but the passenger seat was removed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I just wondered what the maybe lay a body down or something.
Speaker 3:Well, no, when he had it. Yeah, that was to knock somebody out. He could push them in with ease.
Speaker 2:That's what I'm thinking, yeah.
Speaker 3:They would be flat on the ground instead of in a passenger seat.
Speaker 1:So it's thought out.
Speaker 3:So that, yeah, like if you would hit them with the crowbar he could push them easily. Just head first and slam the door and go.
Speaker 2:So that if he's driving long people don't see a head sitting there.
Speaker 1:That's all not conscious, yeah, like this, you know.
Speaker 3:Or trying to push them down. They're already flat on the bottom of the car.
Speaker 2:They're below the dashboard and the back of the. They're below window level.
Speaker 1:Right. So, that makes sense and there was purpose to it, yeah.
Speaker 3:Can you help me? Can you help me get this in the car with the little thing BAP in the back of the head? A quick push, slam the door again and drive off. All right.
Speaker 2:So he was able to explain all of that wild shit away, which is fine. Look man, so these are just household items, right? Yeah, I ski and you know, there's my ski and look, I ski where there's snow, so I might need a nice pick, rope, trash bags, whatever. That's just household shit, that's if your car breaks down.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you need. Yeah, something happened yeah.
Speaker 1:Painty hose mask.
Speaker 2:Maybe it's cold up there. I need a little bit extra insulation.
Speaker 3:Hey, back in the day I remember when I played a this is before underarmor and all this fancy stuff but back when I was I played for the, the Eagles seven seven. That's right. That's right. Like to keep warm. We put like a mask on that was the thing that was the. Thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, wow, but just the mask with the eyes cut out and I have a whole new a whole different outlook.
Speaker 3:It was like cross dressing. No, it's to keep warm.
Speaker 1:Damn it Ice. Pick all this other stuff. I could see crowbar, you need one of them. You know handcuffs.
Speaker 2:That's the one I can't get over.
Speaker 2:I know how he could have explained the way the handcuffs. So not only did they do that, they followed the dude, they followed him back to his apartment. Now again, he was already on the radar. He was absolutely on the radar. They went back to his apartment. They found a brochure advertising the play of the school from which that Deborah Kent girl had disappeared, and like a travel guide to Colorado ski resorts, with a check mark by that Wildwood Inn where Karen Campbell was found. I didn't see that one. That's good. So they found all of this stuff, not all of this. They found these two items plus all that shit in his car. He was released.
Speaker 1:Do you want to go to Colorado, Bro sure?
Speaker 3:Well see that's all circum, that's all.
Speaker 2:Colorado, bro, sure, sure, yeah Nice.
Speaker 3:That's all circumstantial Right. Is it illegal to have handcuffs? It is certainly not.
Speaker 1:No, no, but I mean, this is a lot of smoke.
Speaker 3:A lot of smoke, smoke fire, but still it's circumstantial evidence. He's called J double in that Wild.
Speaker 2:So they then got ahold of this, this clope for a girl, that that single mother with whom he'd been living for years, they have. They call her in for an interview. This is his chick. He'd been dating since 1969. This is like six years later. Right.
Speaker 2:She drops to the police. Yeah, you know it's pretty weird. Some of the stuff that Ted keeps at the house. He keeps at my house women's clothing, a chef's night, a cleaver, plaster of Paris which is for those cast crutches and rubber gloves. I don't know why he needs all this shit. Yeah, that's bizarre. Yeah.
Speaker 3:The everything's cool. Most houses have crutches in them. Sure they do. My house has crutches.
Speaker 2:Yeah, is that some saying? Sure, yeah, some crutches, yeah, man, stuff happens.
Speaker 3:Right, people fall over, slip and fall, but a cleaver, a knife.
Speaker 2:A cleaver and a knife, but so those are those work when they're in the kitchen.
Speaker 3:They just had them in, like the bedroom these weren't in the kitchen.
Speaker 2:These were somewhere else Sit now.
Speaker 3:Basement bedroom the women's clothes is weird because I don't know if he was the kind of keep the the keepsakes in the house or whatever.
Speaker 1:I guess he had to do something with them. Yeah, I mean, if that's your girl and she's like, that's not my like, where is it coming from? You think that would have raised questions? You know what I mean? I don't know, maybe she was in on it.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, no One would hope not.
Speaker 2:No one would hope not. Well, so this guy ended up selling that car his in September of 69. Just sold it to whomever who Ted.
Speaker 1:Ted, oh wow.
Speaker 2:Sorry, yeah. So Ted sold his car in September, the whomever like. As soon as they saw that this had transferred to you know title had transferred they immediately confiscated the car. The authorities confiscated the car, disassembled it, dismantled it. All of that shit.
Speaker 1:I wonder how that real quick, I wonder how that works. Like now I happen to see it's funny you said about buying a car. So you, let's say, you buy a car that's involved in now is police property or involved for an investigation or something like that. So there was a story about a guy that bought a you know what Ford Raptor is.
Speaker 3:It's like one of the big.
Speaker 1:It's a fast pickup truck like 90,000 out of the truck and this gentleman saw one for sale online like a really good price, not crazy low, but low enough. It was like, say they're going for 90,000. This one was 75 and he paid cash for it, thinking you know, not cash, but whatever paid for it, not financed. It got the truck delivered and the vins and everything came out good. And then they found out it was actually a stolen vehicle and the guys you know what I mean. So this guy lost out on that money. Right now, like it's in one of them things where he went ahead and bought the vehicle and it's now part of a police investigation and it's all tied up in you know the red tape and this guy's out $75,000. Obviously, back then this guy I just made me think of when you brought this up this guy bought this VW bug which I'm sure back then was by not much $500.
Speaker 2:I'm sure he got it for a song, but this guy, this poor guy, is now out of the vehicle.
Speaker 1:I wonder how that works, if they had to compensate him for it, or you know.
Speaker 3:It's back when they had beader cars. Yeah, not beader car. It's just a fraud.
Speaker 1:I wonder about that the guy, that poor guy. I wonder what ever happened to him.
Speaker 2:You know they should interviewed him. Maybe he kept it. He sold it to the museums and it's now sitting on the money they might have given him that's the other thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, where did all that money go? Hopefully to the victims, that's right.
Speaker 2:So they confiscated this, sold this, exchanged car, sold whatever, Again confiscated it, dismantled it. In there they found hairs from Karen Campbell, Melissa Smith and Carol Deronche Now there's a name we haven't heard yet.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so back to that. If you'd like me to is that?
Speaker 2:Oh, by all means, please yeah.
Speaker 1:So back to that earlier victim let me get back to. That was Deborah Kent and that happened in. Is that bootiful Bountiful?
Speaker 2:Bountiful, bountiful, on November 8th 1974.
Speaker 1:Utah, that 17 year old. Four hours earlier on that same day there was an attempted kidnapping and probably eventual murder. I'm sure of this, carol Deronche. So she was hanging out at like a mall there locally and Ted came up to her in the mall and approached her and was like hey, how you doing, do you have this car? He watched her probably go into the park and everything. He's like you have this model car. Somebody tried to break into it. We just need you to come out and verify if there was anything missing or what was in there. And he looked to you know.
Speaker 3:He would carry like a police badge or like some sort of fake, fake badge.
Speaker 1:Well, she said he was a good looking guy and kind of like well spoken. And she was like shocked and didn't really think much of it till they got out to the car and the car was not touched Like on, no windows broken, no nothing, and it was locked. And she's kind of like, well, he's like I just need you to come down to the station with me and do a report. And she's like, well, you don't have any idea on you, do you have a badger? And he flipped a badge out.
Speaker 1:So at that point she felt comfortable and got in this VW bug with him and as they're driving down the road she notices they're passing, not going the way of the police station, and she starts freaking out and goes to the car and he pulls over and tries to hit her over the head with a tire and in the car she puts her hands up the guard it and you know he gets a handcuff on her at that point, just one. But she gets out of the car and gets away and then he takes off and four hours later he was so pissed off about like missing out on this Carol Derange that he went and committed the murder that you know, the eventual murder when they found this girl who used to, they only found an e-cap.
Speaker 1:That's right, right. They found handcuffs in that area and they the key was the same as the one that were on Carol Derange Dang. So, yeah, that was the victim that got away.
Speaker 2:The one that got away.
Speaker 1:And that was one that was able to give a description of the car, what he looked like. Yep, so that's evidence, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, not. But days later, on October 2nd 1975, they picked this guy up and right away he was identified by the ranch from a lineup. He ended up being charged with attempted assault and aggravated kidnapping. Now, that's what he had. That was he was charged for for the dirange thing, the one that got, the one that got away. He was released on bail and he lived, just went back to living with clope fur.
Speaker 1:That same chick, that same mother who dined him out four times now four times and didn't even yeah, didn't even think twice about it, but that didn't even think twice to let it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, come on back, ted, it's cool. It's look, I get it Like you have all this weird, crazy shit in the house. You got women's clothes, you got cleavers, you got whatever. You got plaster of Paris, you got crutches, you got slings. No, it's cool, man, you can come back, it's like no problem.
Speaker 1:But they also said in that lineup that he like really changed his appearance. He changed the part of his hair and did all these things that try to make him-.
Speaker 3:He talked in like a different type of voice and stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they tried to make Thor off, you know, and the girl was like, yeah, that's it, like it's still in the matter. But she was shocked at like, and then even the investigators were like wait a minute, you change your hair, like what are you doing here? So the guy was slick.
Speaker 3:But they were saying the release on bail thing was because somebody who stepped in I guess the lawyer or whatever that was that came in there, stepped in. He said that they gave this woman pictures of him before the lineup.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, there was some shady stuff.
Speaker 3:Yeah, they gave pictures. They said you know, this is the guy we're looking for. This guy committed many murders so far. Is this the guy and they were showing her pictures and she's like yeah, I think. So, I think that's the guy.
Speaker 1:I think it might be, but if there's some picture you're equating it to, that's gotta be him.
Speaker 3:So, whatever that. What's the lawyer called? That's free, that pops in there real quick. What's that guy called District attorney? Yeah, but the one that they assigned to you, he was oh, public defender. Public defender was just like, did they show you these pictures of the girls? Like, yeah, why? And they were like you can't do that, you can't do that, you can't do that. So that's why he was released on bail, because it was again, no real evidence You're persuading, or you're doing something to the witness.
Speaker 2:there you got whatever the word is. I'm no attorney and one other thing to do so where am I?
Speaker 1:Yeah, me neither. But one other thing that happened at that time is what we talked about earlier was that church support that he was getting. So they had a lot of people from the church coming down with signs and they had actually signed petitions to like free Ted you know what I? Mean Like get Ted out. Like this couldn't be the guy. There was a lot of that going on. He had these people bamboozled man. They thought he was a good guy.
Speaker 3:Well, then again, I mean, he has the woman he's been living with. You know she comes and says, yeah, he can come back and live with me. I'll pick him up. You know on the bail and you know the cops are like I can go with your girlfriend, man, he ain't killing nobody.
Speaker 4:It's cool man. It's cool man. Yeah, you're a stand up dude.
Speaker 3:Got some handcuffs. I got some too at home.
Speaker 2:man, it's cool man, sometimes I just get freaky, deaky, all right bro, let's roll this up, bro With the French tick list.
Speaker 2:All right, so let's see, he was charged all that good stuff after the trial, while Jerry found him guilty in February of 1976. In June of 1976, he was sentenced to state prison for one to 15 years. While in prison in October of 1976, he was charged with the murder of Karen Campbell that's the one that they found her hairs in his dismantled ass car. One of three people they'd found hairs, that was the chick from that Wildwood Lodge resort that had. You know, he got her up there. Yeah, he was charged with her murder and then he was later transferred to prison in Aspen, colorado.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like you mentioned earlier about them finding those brochures, they also found gas slips from. Ted that were like within the time and distance of where the body or where the girls went missing. When you say gas slips.
Speaker 2:You're saying like receipts yeah, gas receipts when they do the thing like yeah, like probably a hard car.
Speaker 3:They would put the credit card, like you'd have your mom's credit card to buy something. Carb and copy yeah, they go across, but why would you keep that?
Speaker 2:Come on, man. Also do not bring ink and paper into murders All cash.
Speaker 1:Also another thing I noticed on the documentary. I don't know if you noticed them, if you watch the documentary, but he's wearing a t-shirt. At times they have photos that says diagnostic on it, like real big on the shirt, and you see Ted wearing this in numerous pictures while he's in custody and I'm like what the hell? It's not like nowadays where you get cool shirts on, like spring tea or like on a website. I'm like why the hell is he wearing this shirt? So that t-shirt was ordered by Judge Hanson for him to wear when he was going under evaluation by a psychiatrist at the time. So I thought that was interesting. Actually, if you go online now, they sell those shirts For sure, because there's people that like think this guy's cool.
Speaker 3:What was it from?
Speaker 1:It just said diagnostic on it. The judge ordered him to wear it while he was in prison and in custody. What the meaning was.
Speaker 3:I don't know.
Speaker 1:I don't know why would a judge tell you to wear that shirt? Maybe to-.
Speaker 3:Maybe it was like a company he owned or had some stock in could be.
Speaker 1:Well, like I said, you go online. I looked it up.
Speaker 2:Like Stucey.
Speaker 1:maybe it was just appetizers Stucey's starting sure, but you look it up now and they're for sale everywhere. People print them up and sell them on these websites and stuff and there's, I'm sure there's people that buy them.
Speaker 2:Sounds like next year's Halloween costume for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, look it up, man.
Speaker 3:Speaking of which, that was a cool costume, turtle neck.
Speaker 1:That was Zapp's costume. That was pretty cool. Speaking of that him and his wife.
Speaker 3:You guys look spot on, thank you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Napoleon Dynamite.
Speaker 2:So they searched this dude's apartment, let's not forget, and they found that brochure and all that shit were for Karen Campbell. But, fun fact, at his apartment what they didn't find was a huge set of Polaroids. So this guy was in fact a keeper, this guy was a trinket keeper.
Speaker 1:Keeping stuff yeah.
Speaker 2:And it's funny, when he was asked about the Polaroids, which he later certainly confessed to where they later found, he was quoted by saying like well, essentially, why do you have these Polaroids, dude? Why would you do that? Well, when you work hard to do something right, you don't want to forget it. Yeah, like Dahmer. Yeah, that's very Dahmer.
Speaker 3:But did they say how many he had? Was it like a baker's dozen? Was it like six eight. I didn't know, Because they said I heard something about the Polaroids. I remember reading something, but I didn't know how many actual.
Speaker 1:Well, these are the ones that I guess you would have to tie those Polaroids to the victim to say, well, they're definitely in Because if you have. Polaroids even though there's no claiming there. I mean, I guess you can still claim it.
Speaker 3:But I'm saying you got evidence, there's evidence Actual evidence.
Speaker 1:That's what I'd be curious. I've never come across that like the Polaroids online or anything, or I've seen any of that, but I'd wonder who they, what victims the Polaroids are? It does.
Speaker 3:I've never really read into like who, like what you're saying, who exactly the Polaroids were, who were they? Of which like was it? You know, going back to any of the numerous ones that he was hooked to or linked to, I don't know.
Speaker 2:But I know that he again. He was just in prison for, at some point of time, aggravated kidnapping when all of a sudden he got extradited to Colorado for that Karen Campbell murder. So he got tried and convicted of that. But lo and behold, on June 7th 1977, dude escapes prison. Of all things, he's at the Pickin County Courthouse. At his preliminary hearing Now he had chosen to represent himself, that is to say no attorney. Now, since he's the attorney, he's acting as his own attorney.
Speaker 3:He wasn't forced to wear handcuffs and shackles and he was given use of like the courthouse he could go to the library, anything he could do. He could use the phone. He could call anybody yeah.
Speaker 1:He was in there spinning around on the chair in the movie, like just kind of For sure.
Speaker 2:So I mean, part of the criminal process is being able to perform discovery, which is him just being able to research his case, research, whatever research, anything that could help him get the hell out. And so, as Matt had mentioned, he was granted permission to do research at the courthouse's law library. So while he's there in the library, while whatever you know bayliff or guard is maybe turned, his head tied, his shoe, did whatever, this guy opened up a window and jumped from the second story. Now, it's interesting he had practiced this.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, he had been practicing this. He had been in his cell like jumping up or jumping off of his bunk or trying to figure out the best way to land right, Like a superhero land.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like a squat land or like a roll land he was trying to. Yeah, it would be the best way.
Speaker 2:Well, this dumbass ended up entering his right ankle, despite that he did do it yeah, so second story too, Two stories. He ends up messing up his ankle, despite this practice.
Speaker 1:A news reporter there. I saw some of the file footage from back then. They said it was 25 foot drop from the window to the ground.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's a big drop.
Speaker 1:That's a big drop, so I could see where that could really screw you up. He's lucky, that's all. He came away with.
Speaker 3:That's not bad. You can bust it up doing like a three foot drop.
Speaker 2:Dude, I 20, some people definitely jacked me up.
Speaker 1:Now my wife made a good point. We were watching the Zac Efron movie today.
Speaker 3:Was she like how could somebody so handsome she was doing something so bad she?
Speaker 1:was digging him no, but he had right.
Speaker 3:Half the movie was filmed with his shirt off.
Speaker 4:I know it's hot in here Like wait, Ted Bunny didn't do that.
Speaker 1:Pretty much. But in the movie he jumps like he stands on the window sill and jumps out and it's like if you're going to do that you'd get out.
Speaker 2:hang from the window and take about five or six foot you know, six foot that's going to save you six foot off of your jump.
Speaker 1:Right, but no, this guy gets off and like jumps like he's at a frat party or something.
Speaker 3:How did it really happen, though?
Speaker 1:That's what I'm saying. In the movie they depict it like that.
Speaker 3:But I mean, well, if you were going to do it like, would you really take the time or would you just be like hell, this is it, I'm going to go, just jump, because you know you're.
Speaker 2:So I think about that too. I think about when you see the superheroes or the whatever, the any protagonist from any movie or show jumping out of a window and doing whatever. They're not going to hang In my mind. I think, like you had mentioned, dave, I would think of. I can save myself six feet of pain if I just hang and then drop from there. However, if you're hanging, you're now facing the building. So what happens if, as you're dropping, you get your jaw jacked on the window sill or the whatever a brick that might be sticking out, some kind of ledge sticking out where a window is? You know what I mean. Like, as you're dropping all of a sudden, the last thing I want to do is get concussed by a building.
Speaker 2:So you want to land, yeah, a building giving me an uppercut.
Speaker 1:That too, and maybe down straight down was like maybe more of a drop. You know what I mean. Where, if you drop?
Speaker 2:Oh, that's true. I know what you're saying, like the little stairway down.
Speaker 1:Yeah you jump three feet out, you're going to land in grass.
Speaker 3:I disagree with both of you. Oh, I think the reason he jumped out, like by jumping out, is you don't have time to get there and like be, like, let me. How am I going to get myself? Let's do it over the edge. Here. He had the window open enough where he was like I can think I can get my body to where I can go and jump out.
Speaker 1:He was doing the old triple Lindy. Yeah, because, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Because if you go like, if I'm looking at the ledge to go out, I'm like, ok, I got to turn my body like this thing, I slide just like that, I think you only had a certain amount of time and it's like I got to go, I got to go, I gots to go. Yeah, I mean he could. He could have landed. I mean not lucky the guys, you know what I mean. He deserved to die.
Speaker 5:But if you go ahead first or anything like let's dive out the window but yeah, he escaped.
Speaker 2:He did escape despite having injured his ankle. So he made his way, just jumped in a car, made his way to Aspen Mountain, broke into a hunting cabin, stole food, clothing and a rifle and he left the cabin the following day. I mean, this is the shit where you could like before when we were wondering how could he have kept a girl for 20 days. Like it wasn't broken the apartment was in some kind of hunting cabin or some such shit. I don't know.
Speaker 1:One other fun fact I forgot to mention that day of that that he decided to do the jump. He had extra layers of clothing on that day and they thought it was weird, like once you got all them sweaters on extra sweater on. It's not that cold out. You know that type stuff.
Speaker 3:But he knew he could take yeah.
Speaker 1:He's going to be out in the wilderness.
Speaker 2:He was going to be cold or he was going to be in the cold, right. So let's see. Yeah, went to that cabin, so he's all. He's good now. He got food, clothing, rifle, left the cabin the next day. He ended up hiking aimlessly for two days, like basically walking in circles. Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:After those two days he broke into a camping trailer just like another hunting cabin, stole food and clothes. Again Three days later he stole the car from an Aspen golf course from the Aspen golf course, I should say Drove it back to Aspen and while driving through Aspen the cop see him. They're like, yep, there's the guy.
Speaker 1:so he got caught it was a Cadillac that he stole.
Speaker 3:He sounds like that dude in the Philly area that actually he crawled up to get out of prison.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but the eagle switch, yeah, with the evil.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, but he was out doing the same thing. He was like breaking into houses. He stole like a 22 rifle. He stole like sweatshirts what pants got food Off from, like he was watching when people would leave for work or whatever. Then he get into the house.
Speaker 1:A couple things, a couple things I took away from like the second time. The guy's a bad driver. They said he was like swerving.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he was good caught. He's always getting pulled over like he's just a shitty driver. So it was a Cadillac that he stole, a nice looking Cadillac they, I think they showed it on there on the documentary and they also showed footage of at the time. After work got around pretty quickly for back then, like hey, this guy escaped and they started doing roadblocks and at the time there were only two roads out of Aspen, hmm, so they had roadblocks at both, you know, and they had five footage showing these cars like leaving. You know they're checking every one because if he's going by car, that's the only way out.
Speaker 3:Yeah, roblox, that's a good game and it's a he had.
Speaker 1:Roblox and it's all your shitty 70s cars, your pentos, your, you know in this caddy. You're Ford Mavericks, you know shit like that. Yeah but no, he never made it to out of town, like he never was going like he eventually probably wanted to, but he never was on his way out. Yeah, she came down the mountain.
Speaker 2:That's right, he. He quite literally jumped out of the courthouse window as he's looking at the mountain to which he's going to escape. He goes up the mountain, then he comes back down the same goddamn mountain and he gets to the Aspen Golf Course.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he said he was like it got rainy and windy and cold and he was all like Turned around. Yeah, I mean it makes you a little it gets cold.
Speaker 3:He is like I don't want to be here anymore. Yeah, he had enough. I would have went back to jail. Three hot in a cot, dude for sure.
Speaker 2:Already I know Jesus, it's just five minutes good started.
Speaker 1:I know it seems like it and I think there's still a lot to get through on this.
Speaker 2:So I mean he did get caught, but after his escape. But who's to say?
Speaker 1:did he get caught? And is this the end? I don't know. I think there's a lot more to come. A matter of fact, I know there is, and I can't wait.
Speaker 3:I know, I know for a fact the show.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've seen this movie before, but some while chick going on yeah man, I am compelled.
Speaker 2:This is a crazy a story. Yes, crazy wild stuff.
Speaker 1:Wow, it's tough. So, anyway, we hope you're enjoying it. Speaking of which of you are enjoying the podcast, and I'm gonna tell you this at the end of everyone, please leave us have five star rating, a written review on Apple, and interact with us on social media Facebook, instagram. On Facebook, you can send us messages and comment on our, on our Post, and all that give us some feedback if there's any true crimes you'd like us to cover Once we finish this, which I don't know if we ever will get a point.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it seems like so much to cover Slow burn.
Speaker 2:It is a slow burn.
Speaker 3:Episode 9, section 2a.
Speaker 1:I think with this story, you got to go through the whole thing and do it justice. But, yeah, definitely leave us some feedback and reviews. Join us next week as we hopefully finish this one out, and I guess that's it for now, so we'll catch you where on the flip side if we don't see you sooner, we'll see you later.
Speaker 2:Peace.
Speaker 3:Thanks for hanging out in the old, dirty basement. If you dig our theme music, like we do check out the tsunami Experiment, find them on Facebook. Their music is available streaming on Spotify and Apple and where great music is available.
Speaker 1:You can find us at old dirty basement on Facebook and Instagram and at old dirty basement podcasts on TikTok Peace we outie 5000.