Buckle up for a disturbing journey as we trail the enigmatic serial killer Ted Bundy, from his chilling killing spree across multiple states, through his audacious escapes from captivity, right up to his eventual execution. You'll be on the edge of your seat as we recount the heart-stopping drama of his trial and his macabre celebrity status. We thread this grim narrative with a touch of pop culture, mentioning a song by the band Ministry.
Prepare to second guess everything you think you know about Bundy, as we reveal his shocking escape attempts and his calculated use of his attorney status. You'll be riveted by his meticulously planned second prison escape, aided by a fellow inmate, his fiancé, and some smuggled cash. We also delve into the media frenzy around Bundy and how it played out in the courts and public opinion.
Finally, we unravel the chilling details of Bundy's murderous rampage in Florida and the complex dynamics of his trial. We navigate his unexpected proposal while on trial, the intense media coverage, and his escape attempts leading up to his execution. We end on a reflective note, exploring the psychological understanding of serial killers and the disturbing reality behind Bundy's actions. This is not just a recounting of Bundy’s crimes; it’s an exploration into the mind of one of history's most notorious serial killers.
Sounds:https://freesound.org/people/frodeims/sounds/666222/ Door opening
https://freesound.org/people/Sami_Hiltunen/sounds/527187/ Eerie intro music
https://freesound.org/people/jack126guy/sounds/361346/ Slot machine
https://freesound.org/people/Zott820/sounds/209578/ Cash register
https://freesound.org/people/Exchanger/sounds/415504/ Fun Facts Jingle
Thanks to The Tsunami Experiment for the theme music!!
Check them out here
SUPPORT US AT https://www.buzzsprout.com/1984311/supporters/new
MERCH STORE https://ol-dirty-basement.creator-spring.com
Find us at the following
Buckle up for a disturbing journey as we trail the enigmatic serial killer Ted Bundy, from his chilling killing spree across multiple states, through his audacious escapes from captivity, right up to his eventual execution. You'll be on the edge of your seat as we recount the heart-stopping drama of his trial and his macabre celebrity status. We thread this grim narrative with a touch of pop culture, mentioning a song by the band Ministry.
Prepare to second guess everything you think you know about Bundy, as we reveal his shocking escape attempts and his calculated use of his attorney status. You'll be riveted by his meticulously planned second prison escape, aided by a fellow inmate, his fiancé, and some smuggled cash. We also delve into the media frenzy around Bundy and how it played out in the courts and public opinion.
Finally, we unravel the chilling details of Bundy's murderous rampage in Florida and the complex dynamics of his trial. We navigate his unexpected proposal while on trial, the intense media coverage, and his escape attempts leading up to his execution. We end on a reflective note, exploring the psychological understanding of serial killers and the disturbing reality behind Bundy's actions. This is not just a recounting of Bundy’s crimes; it’s an exploration into the mind of one of history's most notorious serial killers.
Sounds:https://freesound.org/people/frodeims/sounds/666222/ Door opening
https://freesound.org/people/Sami_Hiltunen/sounds/527187/ Eerie intro music
https://freesound.org/people/jack126guy/sounds/361346/ Slot machine
https://freesound.org/people/Zott820/sounds/209578/ Cash register
https://freesound.org/people/Exchanger/sounds/415504/ Fun Facts Jingle
Thanks to The Tsunami Experiment for the theme music!!
Check them out here
SUPPORT US AT https://www.buzzsprout.com/1984311/supporters/new
MERCH STORE https://ol-dirty-basement.creator-spring.com
Find us at the following
Thanks for tuning in to the old dirty basement on today's episode. We're covering part three of three on Ted Bundy.
Speaker 2:Finally, let's put this one to bed for this charismatic killer.
Speaker 3:Yeah, put this one to bed, d I try to throw that in here.
Speaker 1:It doesn't work. Try to rhyme it.
Speaker 3:Yes, part three of nine yeah.
Speaker 1:But we hope you enjoy this. Speaking of which, if you're enjoying the podcast, hit that five star rating on Spotify. On Apple, you can leave a five star review as well as a written review and really help us out. Sit back, relax and enjoy part three of Ted Bundy.
Speaker 4:This is the old, dirty basement Home to debauchery, madness, murder and mayhem.
Speaker 1:A tear filled train ride deep into the depths of the devil's den With a little bit of humor history and copious consciousness.
Speaker 4:I'm your announcer, shallow throat. Your hosts are Dave, matt and Zap. I love you, matthew McGone.
Speaker 3:All right, all right, all right, hey this is Dave, matt and Zap, and welcome to the old, dirty basement where every week we cover a true crime murder or compelling story. So sit back, relax and comprehend. Hello everyone, hello, hello and welcome to the old, dirty basement. I am Matt, with me always is Dave and Zap. Good afternoon, evening, morning, gentlemen. How are you? What's?
Speaker 1:going on. How are you Great?
Speaker 3:I'm great, that's good. It's a lovely fall fall late afternoon.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm done. I'm done with the leaf. Get started quick.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm done with the leaf yeah.
Speaker 1:Can't believe it's November already. It's crazy. I'm loving it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean the days the days only get better between here and the winter solstice.
Speaker 1:Mm, hmm.
Speaker 2:Already Christmas commercials and stuff. The lesser daylight we get, the happier I am.
Speaker 3:I know I like it dark Hell, yeah, so much nicer. Like the sun, especially driving home, like on the sun's all in your eyes. You can't see, it's the blurs.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and we got that extra hour this weekend.
Speaker 2:Oh, that was glorious, that was absolutely glorious, despite look, despite waking up at like 5, 30. Mm, hmm. Yeah and shit. Now I have all this extra time in the day. Nope, I just rolled on over.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think I woke up at like 3 30 this morning. Well, actually would have been 3 30. Right, but it was 4 30. And I'm still like, still early, but I'll get up.
Speaker 1:Yep, I had a luxury of being off today, so I had a day to adjust here stay up watch football late and it was a good night and I was able to sleep in a little bit. So anyway, nice, we're back in today with part three of Ted Monday.
Speaker 3:Part three. Yeah, part three of 17. Yeah, when now? Well, we'll see we're on part three. A lot on this guy.
Speaker 2:Hopefully the final, but I anticipate being the final. Yeah. So what do we do so far? Well, so far. In episode one we covered his early life, his formative years, his college years, his professional life, the entree into his criminal life with assault and eight murders, his move to Utah and uh, oh, lo and behold bodies that were discovered at Lake Samamish State Park. If you haven't listened already, you're listening out of order.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:So go back, go back, listen to part one.
Speaker 1:Go, go back there Got a lengthy, lengthy record.
Speaker 3:There's a lot like that. Pretty much that. That's pretty much it Like his life in an eggshell. Is that? What they call it An egg shell not shell, not shell. I think an eggshell would be more roomy. It's far more fragile, true.
Speaker 1:True.
Speaker 3:Like a nut shell, would be more like the delicate of Ted Bundy. He's a fragile man, yeah.
Speaker 2:He's a tender little guy. Tender Well, so were his victims. So in part two we covered how his murders continued. Uh, he relocated to Utah to further his uh legal studies. While there he kept on killing. Now the police were after him. The police knew who they had a suspect for damn sure and despite all signs pointing to Ted, they just couldn't believe it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's just hard to believe. It's killer named Ted who looks like him and he sketches and everything else. Nobody can believe it. They even joke about it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, can't be that guy. Yeah, he's too nice looking.
Speaker 3:But was it always that guy? Right. Oh, that's another part of the story. Who's to say? Who's to say? Well, some of them yeah, they are, they are his murders. But there's a lot that is crazy, crazy ones that just pop up and they're like he did it.
Speaker 2:No for sure, and so, while he had then from Utah, he moved on to uh, colorado, to continue his killing spree. In the meantime, some skulls and jaws of four of his victims were found in the woods of Taylor Martin Washington.
Speaker 3:Real quick in the meantime. Who was that?
Speaker 1:Space Hawk.
Speaker 3:Space Hawk is correct. Yeah, no, no no. Space Hawk was yes, in the meantime was one of their songs, but um was that ministry.
Speaker 1:One more fix. That's the only ministry. Okay, that's the only ministry one.
Speaker 3:I must have got it messed up with Space Hawk. Yeah, space.
Speaker 1:Hawk was in the meantime, yeah.
Speaker 2:Now, despite whatever was found in uh Washington in the woods, he kept on killing Colorado, idaho, utah. Just kept it moving along. Uh, we discovered that it was consistent over and over and over and over again. He found his victims by playing lame. I got a broken arm, I got a busted, you know kneecap something. Can you help me get something into or out of my car?
Speaker 3:I got a yacht on the top of my car. Just really helped me get it down from there. That's right, yeah, catamaran which we did discover.
Speaker 2:Catamarans come in all shapes and sizes. They do, yeah, they don't necessarily need to be the big ones with which Matt and I had previously been familiar.
Speaker 1:And I thought it was a Porsche. I didn't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:What is score?
Speaker 3:Like a catamaran model of Porsche, the Porsche catamaran. That's what, uh, the guy had on nine or two, one, oh right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he had a Porsche catamaran.
Speaker 2:Catamaran, little two door Dylan. I thought it was a MG, but nope, it was a Porsche.
Speaker 1:Actually, it was a Volkswagen Carmen, yeah.
Speaker 2:I think did this come up. Yeah, I was wrong, so now we're all over the place.
Speaker 1:We're all over the place, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, in the meantime, not to be confused with the song of the same name, not the ministry.
Speaker 3:It's space.
Speaker 2:Not to be confused with his base hog song. He ultimately did get arrested. He was creeping through a neighborhood. I ball in his next victim. Sure enough, police saw him. We matched the description because, for damn sure you know by now, a lot of people knew what this cat looked like and he fled from the police.
Speaker 3:Dave would say like this guy wasn't a good driver for being like no for being a murder. Like he was like driving around, like drinking a beer like trying to get some raisinettes Right, stuff's falling all over his dashboard Jesus, yeah, like he just doesn't care, he's running stop signs.
Speaker 1:He's probably like. I mean, we all know people like just bad drivers can't drive stick. They're probably the cars bucking. You know what I mean? You're just swerving, but I wanted to get back to that where you said he got caught peeking in and that was kind of his MO right? Yeah. Like to peeping Tom and all that like, even as a teenager. Oh my God.
Speaker 2:So he was George McFly in it for sure, he was absolutely George McFly McFly. So you're talking about stuff rolling all over the dashboard, the seats and shit like that. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So a buddy of mine is a realtor and at some point in his career he may or may not have been into cocaine, so he at one point, at one point, might have tried it once. So it's the summertime, right, and he's sitting there and he's got, he's waiting, at a house. He's got, you know, clients coming to do a walk through the house. So it's the summertime, sitting in his car, he puts a couple of lines on his dashboard and he does one line and he's doing whatever. He's just waiting, he's waiting, he's waiting. It's the summertime, he's sitting in his car, it gets hot in there. So the dude turns on the fan, he turns on his air conditioner.
Speaker 2:Coke is blowing all over the place, absolutely all over the place, like a snow globe. Yeah Well, it's also blowing all over him. So he's got to get out of his car. He just I don't want to say covered in it. It's not like you know, he dove into a fat, a flower, but I mean, it's still all over him. So he's just brushing himself up and again he's, he's on the coke now. So he's just like this little chipmunk out there, moving like a mile a minute. Anyway, that's the first thing I thought of as soon as somebody said that shit was rolling around in their car trying to avoid the police. It sounds like some waffle wall street yeah.
Speaker 3:This guy had way too much money, for sure, cause I would have been freaking out.
Speaker 2:Oh my God yeah.
Speaker 1:Absolutely no. Imagine that guy showing the house. You're trying to keep up with him.
Speaker 3:He's like upstairs, come on, follow me, I'm gonna go upstairs. No wait, I'm gonna watch.
Speaker 2:I got a jar Dude I just finished the tour two minutes ago. We only got here one minute ago. So yeah, back to Ted Bundy. So he got caught. His girlfriend at the time had started diamond him out telling this, that and the other thing they we. I don't know why this guy keeps this, that and the other thing in the house like plaster Paris knives, cleavers, crutches, rubber gloves, shit that I don't need and I don't know why he has it in the house. He ended up selling his car, which the cops had they had confiscated. After the sale took that apart, they found hairs that matched like three of his victims. He was identified by this Deraj woman from a lineup. The Deraj chick was the one that got away. Yes.
Speaker 2:Ended up being found guilty. He was sentenced to state prison for one to 15 years for the sketch For the actual sketch assault of Deraj. He was only sentenced for the assault. Okay.
Speaker 2:Cause nobody knows he was murdered at this point. Nobody had confirmed that. So, yeah, went to state prison one to 15 years. While in prison, that's when he was charged with the murder of Karen Campbell. So they had again enough on the assault from Deraj. But while there, that's when he was first charged with murder. We even talked about how he kept Polaroids. Yes, not unlike Ted Bundy, I'm sorry Other murders Dahmer.
Speaker 2:Yeah, jeff Dahmer and others, Cause you do something right, you want to, you know, keep safe. Oh, and then at the end he escaped.
Speaker 1:I can't believe that yeah.
Speaker 2:He jumped out of a window while defending himself. He acted as his own attorney, as his own counsel, jumped out of the window of the courthouse library. What?
Speaker 1:are the chances of a guy like that escaping for him Pretty good.
Speaker 3:I just you know.
Speaker 1:I'm just thinking like the guy is like under suspicion of murder and I get it's a different time back in the day. But are you that relaxed? I mean, weed wasn't legal back then in Colorado, right, Like why are these people so relaxed that they're just, oh yeah, he go in the courtroom, do whatever you want. Or like go, you know the court, where were they at the court library or something?
Speaker 3:like that Library. But what we said about this guy? I mean, he was a smart guy and he also was defending himself, which we talked about, and him being able to, he's still free. He wasn't proven anything, so they had to give him his rights as a you know, a citizen to do his thing.
Speaker 1:I get that, like I know, back in the day we did that one on the Kellers' massacre and that guy had basically he was able to eat, come and go as he pleased. But that was more about Influence.
Speaker 2:Influence, that was like connection, that was also like, yeah, like mafia type influence.
Speaker 1:You think, just because a Bundy being so almost like they didn't even believe that somebody like that could do these things today.
Speaker 3:He was charismatic. He was like a flank cut guy. He didn't look opposing or anything like that.
Speaker 2:It's just hard to believe. And PS, he's an attorney, so again he's smart People think of. People will look at attorneys, even CPAs, doctors, like there's teachers. Right, they look at them with a level of respect, like whatever this person says or does, because of their particular profession, they must be okay, right, they'll look at that as a professional Sure, right?
Speaker 3:Yeah, sure, they know what they're talking about. They know what they're doing. They're not going to harm anybody. He's not going to stab the cop that's in charge of keeping an eye on them, or anything like that.
Speaker 2:So this cat jumped out of the window, ran up the mountain, stayed a night or two in a different, in a cabin or two, roamed around the mountain, ended up coming down the same mountain. Made his way to a golf course, stole a car, got caught.
Speaker 1:It's like Grand Theft Auto. This guy's playing you know, like a video game on most.
Speaker 3:It's just like it's crazy. He's a busy guy. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, meanwhile, now that he's back in jail, this guy ended up becoming somewhat of a celebrity. Actually, most believed he was innocent and was being set up. I mean, this is from television coverage. This is all kinds of stuff this this is what they call that nowadays like trial by Trial by media. Yeah, there it is Trial by media or something like that.
Speaker 1:I mean we see that shit all the time, but you're saying this was the other way around, where the media is saying, nah, this guy's innocent Correct. Oh wow, yeah, correct, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Absolutely correct. They thought like there's some kind of conspiracy to bring this poor man down. Oh, my goodness, it's just terrible. All right.
Speaker 3:Especially because he had a girlfriend. He had a job. He was employed by what? The government or the state? A state job. He had a state job.
Speaker 1:He was involved in the church there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he'd be tall. He's a regular guy and he had a lot of their support.
Speaker 1:It's just it just hard to believe.
Speaker 5:You know the church don't do anything wrong and I get all that support and all that.
Speaker 1:But I would just think when you're in custody, you're in custody Like. I know that maybe the feeling was that he was innocent, but it's just hard to believe that he was able to get away once. I'm hoping, yeah, yeah, just once.
Speaker 2:Oh, that sounds like an illusion. So, as we talked about with this media stuff, so reporters are in there all the time, right, they're getting what happened today.
Speaker 2:It wasn't the OJKs where they had cameras going, but for damn sure they were keeping up with the story and all this stuff and for sure, like pre-trial motions continued to go in his favor to the point where he actually stood a good chance of being acquitted. After much of the evidence that was presented was actually deemed inadmissible, like everything was looking rosy, everything was coming up Bundy. Still, despite the fact that he could have won, everything was looking like it was Looking like he could have won and spent maybe a year or whatever in jail just for the assault. Nope, I don't want any part of that. This guy planned his second escape. Of course he did. Yeah, I mean, if you're in prison, what do you want to do? What else?
Speaker 3:do you have to do? What else do you have to do? You have to hang around.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So this guy somehow, some way, acquired a detailed floor plan of the jail. He got a hacksaw blade which was given to him by a fellow inmate and he ended up accumulating $500 cash which was later discovered it was smuggled into over a six month period by his fiance, a former coworker from DES, Carol Ann Boone, the Department of Emergency Services met the state job. You said that was the Washington state job, DES.
Speaker 1:He had brought up. So she was bringing in money and drugs for him as well Marijuana and who knows what else. She would bring it in vaginally and then he'd take it back to the cell annually. That's where he would store it at Looky looky. Yeah right, he would want to smoke that shit. You know what I mean. After that, it's pretty nasty.
Speaker 2:It's been everywhere. That's amazing. So I guess in this particular prison he was in, conjugal visits weren't allowed. No, yeah, but somehow some way, like the other inmates, this guy was a smooth talker. He made friends with other prisoners. Smart dude Right. No butt rapes for him.
Speaker 3:Well, the prisoners, he made friends with the guards. Sure, yeah, just talking to them guards, I'm sure, like if a guy's nice to them, they got to deal with assholes all day. Sure, right, you're like, hey man, how's your day today?
Speaker 1:They're probably it's all right and educated guy in there that can talk and hold conversations. He's probably interesting. You know, I'm sure he probably gave him illegal advice and, who knows, could have been Like an anti-dufrane yeah true.
Speaker 2:So this guy, if I understand correctly a conjugal visit. Look, you and I could visit each other in prison and that's fine. If we're in prison and one of our wives come and it's still through the glass, I don't even know if that's considered a conjugal visit. My understanding of conjugal visit is hey, look man, you two go in that closet, you know you get seven minutes in heaven and that's truly the conjugal visit.
Speaker 3:I think there is like actual places you can get. They give you like a little trailer park room type area.
Speaker 2:Nice.
Speaker 3:I think that you can get conjugal depending what your crime was Right. So I don't know about murderers or convicted murderers. I don't know what that is, but Right.
Speaker 2:And in this case, because he was again, he was a scape risk convicted on the assault thing that he's fighting now. And now he's fighting his murder, murder trial, no dice. You don't get conjugal visits, but with the right greezin and the right talking to the right guards. He got not to be confused with the deodorant right. He got these sexy time visits with this Carol Ann Boone broad and she ended up, like you said, just smuggling cash in her. You know, holey is the holies.
Speaker 1:They actually in the movie. They depicted it with Zac Efron and her. They were in like in the break room there's like a Coke machine there and he's and they're doing it Like he's got her up against the machine and the guards sitting around the other side of the machine kind of like like looking around like nothing's going on, you know, yeah.
Speaker 3:But in a lot of, a lot of these movies that you see I don't know if it's you know in real life, but they do say, if you grease the palms of a lot of these guys to look the other way, that you do what you got to do, like hey, there's nobody in the you know the AV room or whatever the air conditioning. You guys got 10 minutes in there. I'll look around for you. Give me 500 bucks or three.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, I can believe that some drugs too.
Speaker 3:If she's bringing in stuff, she might be bringing in drugs for the guards, you know right, it's a whole sub economy there.
Speaker 2:Oh, I believe it, it's a whole other.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like an ecosystem Like they. They totally yeah. They evolve and do whatever they need to do inside that little jail man. It's a whole other, another world.
Speaker 2:A whole other world I will never be in.
Speaker 3:So this guy, we can all hope.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm never going. If I ever get to that point, I'm doing death by cop or I'm doing something.
Speaker 3:I'm not, I am not built for prison. I've said to be, I am not made for prison. What if it's like, uh, like the one like Martha Stewart went to, like those like basically camps? Oh, the country yeah Like like if you're not going to jail for okay, I'm sorry, Murder say it's something that.
Speaker 2:If it's white collar prison, maybe I'd be okay with that.
Speaker 3:Like you smuggled a couple of mill you know, thought you'd get away with it open a couple car washes, funneled some money and then they finally catch you and give you like six months in.
Speaker 1:Laundering is not easy, let me tell you, mm hmm Well, look at Jordan Belford, or whatever he did prison time and like he was writing books and sure, I mean, he came out a better man yeah. I think it just depends on your what kind of crime? Yeah, they don't say he was doing easy time in there. I don't know.
Speaker 3:I'm just saying like I'm sure it depends on what crime you're doing, like you said they're not putting you for white collar in jail with like murderers, child molesters, things like that they kind of he was in there with Tommy Chong. That's right. Who was? A celebrity.
Speaker 1:Not not Bundy. I'm talking about no, yeah, yeah, belford, yeah.
Speaker 2:Belford. So, using the hacksaw blade he'd gotten from the other inmate, he ended up sawing a hole in his cells ceiling and he did it slowly but surely over the course of days. Again, just a true Andy Dufresne style. He then spent a number of days practicing and exploring the crawl space above his and others cells, like the adjoining cells. Like you just cut a hole in the ceiling and he just goes walking around in the crawl space.
Speaker 1:See where he leads.
Speaker 2:He's got the map, he just needed to know. Planning his escape Again. Andy Dufresne, Shawshank, Redemption all real life type shit here.
Speaker 1:Like Zelda, you're a bear going in different rooms and passages. True.
Speaker 3:Funny. I just read a thing they were saying about how you see these movies and these guys are in these crawl spaces, just like that five night at Freddy's or whatever. These crawl spaces seem huge. They're not that big. No, they are not. It's like you have to get like Superman style and slide through like slither. They're not very big at all. So I mean that's a lot of determination to do that.
Speaker 1:I'm claustrophobic. I went last. I couldn't do it either. I freaked out. No chance.
Speaker 3:Not if you're trying to get out of jail, though. Like you look at the ladder, you're like Make an exception.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's true. Yeah well, after all of that hole in the ceiling, and practicing and practicing, on December 30th 1977. Ted Bundy managed to get away with his second escape. Now, this cat placed books under his blankets to make it look like he was sleeping. We've all, I'm sure, done it pillows, whatever. He had, books. He climbed through the ceiling and then went through the crawl space and ended up in the office of the chief jailer, who was actually gone for that night. New Year's Eve party.
Speaker 3:What are the chances for the?
Speaker 2:odds, Whatever some kind of party. He just knew it was gonna happen. He got into that jailer's office just like Dufresne went into the warden's office. Ted Bundy got into this guy's office changed into street clothes that he had found in the jailer's closet and he walked right out the front door, Right out the front door.
Speaker 3:You think Shawshank? They kind of based it on this, on like the Bundy escape, maybe Kind of like used parts of it. I wonder.
Speaker 2:It sounds very. I'm trying to think when different seasons from when Shawshank came. Well, what was his? Crime in that I was trying to figure out when that book was written he was a murderer, he was convicted for murdering his wife, which he did not do.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he really did not do. He was innocent, just like everybody else in jail. That's right, it was his lawyer.
Speaker 2:So, after being in the jailer's clothes and walking right out the front door, old Ted stole a car which ended up breaking down. From there he hitched a ride to Vale, colorado, took a bus to Denver, colorado, and then from Denver he took a flight to Chicago. Go Broncos.
Speaker 1:Yeah, planes, trains, murders and automobiles.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh so.
Speaker 2:Four shadow In truth. Ooh, I like what you did there. So, staff at the jail it took them 17 hours to discover that Ted was actually missing. Like he was just to be clear. They discovered that Ted was missing 17 hours after he left Ted wake up.
Speaker 3:Okay, we'll leave you at sleep.
Speaker 2:Ted, you sure do feel stiff.
Speaker 3:Hey, Ted, get up. We're gonna come in there and wake you up, buddy Better 17 hours. That's insane, ted. You missed lunch. Ted, are you getting up? Come on, ted, we're coming in there. Hour 15, maybe.
Speaker 2:We're coming in there with antibiotics if you're sick.
Speaker 3:It's break time. It's like, well, we got break in an hour, so we'll be back after that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Jesus Christ, Whenever you had that bueller set up.
Speaker 2:I liked to yeah, like when the dummy comes out of the blanket Ta-da-da-da-da-da. By the time. So by the time they had discovered that he was missing, he was already in Chicago. No chance, it's over.
Speaker 1:Well, that's the part I, early on, and I think it was in the second episode I brought up something that would never happen nowadays with, like getting a flight that easily, like no ID, nothing, like he must have just went in there with the cash. I want to take it to Sure, so, and so you know the color. Or to Illinois, chicago, and yeah, here you go. No ID, no nothing.
Speaker 2:There's a great movie out there Go ahead. There's a great movie out there called Airport, dean Martin's in it Great movie. The guy ends up blowing a hole in the plane while he's flying. But and I would love for us to cover that movie. But if you watch Airport, you can see how in fact easy it was back in the day to just buy a ticket for an airplane. Oj Simpson was in that movie In Airport.
Speaker 3:Yeah, correct.
Speaker 1:Is airplane like a parody of airport.
Speaker 2:That's what I was going to ask. It's a parody of something.
Speaker 3:No, I think you're thinking airplane, aren't you Am I?
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh no, that wasn't OJ Simpson. Oj Simpson was in the towering Inferno.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was cream Abdul. Cream Abdul was in the cream, abdul was in airplane, airplane, airplane. Yeah, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2:OJ man, you got me confused. But is airport a real movie? Airport is absolutely a real movie with Dean. Martin with Dean Martin OK.
Speaker 3:OK, but it's like a serious movie, not like airplane not serious at all.
Speaker 2:It is a I'm sorry, not like airplane at all. It is a very serious OK yeah, it is a drama.
Speaker 1:Speaking of old movies and I know we're in the middle of a true crime, but this is kind of like a true crime is Juice man, in the worst way, wants us to do this old movie called arsenic and old lace. It's about a serial killer. You see, it, I'm not aware of it.
Speaker 2:He said it's great they run it on TCM. It's got to be on there like once a month. Good movie, you like it.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, OK yeah, and that's a classic from the man who brought United, the Leapest. Yeah, juice, he's going to redeem him. He said he's going to redeem himself with this, one is a definite redemption.
Speaker 3:No, but real quick, as Dave just said a friend of mine, never real quick. Real quick is not. It is. But Dave brought up something that a friend of mine at work show me today. It was this lady. She was driving a Porsche and it was like one of the newer ones A catamaran, yep, a catamaran. Exactly. So they show her on the. They were showing the cameras, like you know. They're taking a picture over here, picture over here. All of a sudden she loses control. Flip.
Speaker 1:I saw that she OK, yes, sideways.
Speaker 3:Uh huh. So the lady and the passenger was dead. This lady actually got out, went home like, cleaned up whatever, got tickets to go to China. So now she is in China. They have people looking for her.
Speaker 1:Oh, because she beat before they found out who who's who. And then I wonder how quickly that pings, like that you get caught Like they know whose card is that they can put out she was like down in a ditch or whatever, I guess, or something.
Speaker 3:They didn't see it right away, but they had the camera footage and I guess nobody's really looking at it at that time Because you know at three in the morning or whatever, but did you see it how?
Speaker 1:did. The passenger was dead.
Speaker 3:She somehow crawled out, went home cleaned up and got tickets and she's gone.
Speaker 2:Yeah, damn, but I want to be ninja. Yeah, yeah, that is.
Speaker 1:But Bindi back nowadays, he would have never made it clean.
Speaker 2:No chance Well nowadays, it wouldn't be no 17 hours until they discovered he was missing. No. But now we have our man Bindi, who was a man on the run. So from Chicago he took a train to Ann Arbor, Michigan, stole a car from there and drove to Atlanta and then from there he took a bus to Tallahassee, Florida. I'm a travel in man Dude, he is man, for sure.
Speaker 1:But now, interestingly enough, despite you know, despite not needing ID or whatever to get on an airplane, he tried getting a job but he couldn't get one down there because, like he just wanted to start all over, Like, hey, man, I'm not Ted Bundy, I'm Fred Burgundy, so sure, whatever, he couldn't get a job because they required ID and I can't believe that because I know a guy that works at a place locally here Now I won't name the business because I'm sure they're not proud of it, but they were near where the state hospital is and he would tell me that on numerous occasions there were people that would walk out of the state hospital, go down to this place and get a job and be working for the day.
Speaker 1:They'd come down and be like, hey, did you see that? Oh yeah, they're back there and receiving or whatever, and would start already Like, and this isn't that long ago I mean I say to me not long ago, 15 years ago maybe. I remember him telling me the story. I don't know if that was going on 15 or 20 years ago, but even so, if this is back in the 70s, it was definitely later than that going on around here. So it depends on the let's we'll bring this back to that Correct what kind of job it is.
Speaker 2:Like a guy we know may or may not be involved in, let's say, the produce business, right, so with that produce business, if you've got pickers or sorters or whatever, it's not unlike the same people who work what are called like migrant jobs, that are picking trees or doing, you know, work in the fields or shit like that. So these are people that they just come up here to work. That's it, or this maybe the groups of people you may or may not see hanging out at a home depot, sometimes waiting for construction guys to drive by. Look, if there's work to be done, they'll do it. He's probably showed up at the law firm that's trying to be a lawyer or something.
Speaker 2:Let's just say that I know a guy that cuts grass and he loves receiving cash as payment, Because that's how he can pay his people who may or may not, number one, be able to speak English alone. Have a driver's license Right Be on the book.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I guess you're right, it depends on the work Correct. So this guy was trying to.
Speaker 2:I think he was trying to get a construction job, I think. But if it wasn't construction, given his background, I'm thinking Ted Bundy was looking to get some kind of highbrow job.
Speaker 1:He was like yeah, I work construction 15 years, I'm the best. How are I ZZO Sure, Frank Rizzle.
Speaker 2:I mean he could do it. He could pull it off. If there was anyone who could change his personality, it was this guy. Why weren't these guys?
Speaker 3:trying to get back into Mexico, because I think in the 70s this was one of them places like coming out they were kind of like a little iffy about, but when you wanted to go in they were kind of like you could walk right in pretty much.
Speaker 3:Oh Christ, yeah, yeah, they had like a guy checking to see if you had weapons on you and you don't really need ID or anything in the 70s. No, I would have hightailed it for the border man. Sure, yeah, he probably would have been a bartender right now, somewhere like serving drinks.
Speaker 5:He would have never got caught. No, they don't care they don't care about America, had he made his way to Mexico, he would have never gotten caught.
Speaker 2:And I don't care how much of a gringo he is, he would have never gotten caught. It's a big country, man Right.
Speaker 1:A lot of places.
Speaker 2:Oh well. So since this dude didn't have a job, he ended up finding his way to getting money by swiping purses at local grocery stores. And that's just simply. Some lady leaves her purse in her basket while she goes over and she checks out the pineapples. He would just swipe her purse. Swipe her purse, Walk out. Now he's got money.
Speaker 3:Would you say that ninja thing? What? Do you guys?
Speaker 2:say I want to be ninja. Yeah, he wants to be ninja. Yeah, he definitely was some ninja shit with those purses. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, you can take the guy out of the crime scene, but you can't take the crime out of the guy, I guess. So while in Florida, old Ted and his murderous sprees continue. So two of an attempted four of these murders would occur on the same night in the same building, on January 15th 1978. Now again, this is not but two weeks after he escaped from prison. This guy broke into a sorority house at Florida State University. We come across Margaret Bowman, 21 year old student, who was beaten ahead with a piece of firewood, then murdered by strangulation with her own pantyhose. We then come to Lisa Levy, another 20 year old student, who was beaten unconscious, murdered by strangulation, had her nipple torn off, her butt cheek was deeply bitten and then he violated in her badge with a bottle of aquanet. It's horrible.
Speaker 3:I think that that bite was a bad move by Mundy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but okay, that's all bad moves Sure Well, yeah, I wonder if they would be able to match that with the dental records, or something.
Speaker 3:That's what I mean. I wonder. You might leave like a tooth mark.
Speaker 2:I mean deeply bitten. Yeah, that's more than just like a little hickey.
Speaker 1:Isn't that a great white song, once bitten twice, shy, oh yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2:She was certainly once bitten, so one more time took a hairspray can jammed it up. So those were two murders of and attempted four, which means there were two left, okay, first being Kathy Kleiner, who survived. She's a 21 year old student and she was beaten, had her jaw broken and her cheek was cut wide open, but she did survive, as did Karen Chandler, another 21 year old student, who was beaten and concussed and had her fingers, right arm and jaw shattered, yet somehow she lived.
Speaker 1:I think there was just so much commotion like people in the area that he got, he got scared.
Speaker 2:I mean, it was a sorority house. This guy got nuts or just crazed, just crazed. He just had that murderous taste Thing with.
Speaker 3:it's weird, though, with these a lot of his victims, it says, like you know, beaten unconscious, beaten unconscious, I think, if you don't get them right away, that kind of like scare he like, he doesn't like a fight. I don't think right. Like yeah like the strangulation of stuff he likes, but he needs to have them, like knocked out. I see what you're saying. If it doesn't work in his favor right away, if there's a bit of a struggle, he tries to get the hell out of there.
Speaker 3:Yeah he can't handle that. He needs that complete control. It sounds like For sure?
Speaker 2:Well, it's like days and confused, right. So at the end, when they're on the moon tower and there he wants to start that fight, he's like oh you know, people, after the first punch people start to break stuff up. Well, it didn't go that way. He threw the first punch and then he got his ass kicked yeah. Right Same thing Same shit.
Speaker 2:Well, after he got scared out of the sorority house at Florida State University eight blocks away, he broke into the apartment of Cheryl Thomas, who was a 21 year old student. She ended up getting a dislocated shoulder, a fractured skull and jaw. She was actually saved. She survived. She was saved by her next door neighbors over hearing the commotion and calling the cops.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so much like that other one, just so much noise and this is like that.
Speaker 2:I mean, this is that last ditch. This is my last run. I know it's over Like it's the heat's on. I've been discovered at the sorority house. The neighbors called at, the neighbors called the cops. You know, eight blocks away, this apartment, this guy's just going for it. February 8, 1978, not but three weeks later he comes across Kimberly Leach. She's a 12 year old student from Lake City, florida Now. He abducted her in a stolen FSU van. She was found seven weeks later in the Suwani River State Park. She'd been raped, had her throat cut and her genitals mutilated.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this one was obviously rough because of the age. I remember the investigating officer that actually found the body said, in all the years on the force, that was the first time he cried, Like when he came across the body. I mean not to say that when a girl was 18, 19, 20, that still not horrible, just being that this girl was 12 years old and it's just like I mean just how sick and depraved this guy was.
Speaker 2:So every one of these not every, but so many of these so far were college girls or whatever, at least in their teens. How did he get to this 12 year old Like why, how would this one come across? His radar Just doesn't seem like his big MO.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I guess maybe he was just desperate for desperate for the kill.
Speaker 2:Yeah, blood loss does it were.
Speaker 1:I don't know. I think we talked earlier. Matt. You said on the one that he made a comment on the girls earlier that wasn't.
Speaker 3:He said that was a mistake. So, that's yeah, I don't. I don't know how a 12 year old came in the other one was like a 13 year old, correct?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was. It was around that age, but it wasn't definitely wasn't much older than 13. I think it was around 13, but he had made comments that like how wasn't his thing.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he was a mistake.
Speaker 1:It's a good point. Like what changed for him. Was it just desperation?
Speaker 3:Like I just need to kill, or there's been a lot of talking like so, if you read into this about some of these stories where they say he may have had somebody working with him. Right. Oh. I mean a compass right and a compass to the stuff that he was into.
Speaker 2:It could be, Well, old Ted wasn't so smart when it came to staying away from the cops, trying to keep a low profile. One week later, on February 15th 1978, old Ted was pulled over by a Pensacola police officer driving a stolen car Like dude. I cannot tell you this over and over and over again enough If you're going to break the law, just do them one at a time. Just one at a time.
Speaker 1:And I'm pretty sure it was another Volkswagen bug again. At least that's how they described it Described it in, you know, in the documentaries and all that it's a nut. So he knew how they worked. I guess he knew how they were. Maybe you know how to hot wire them. Maybe I think that one the keys might have been in it, but he was just maybe comfortable with it. But it's like he's seen.
Speaker 3:It caught his eyes like wait, oh wait, he's still in here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but just seems odd that you know you would keep going back to that car, I guess.
Speaker 3:But what's up, said if you're, if you're rolling the dice, if you're wanted for murder you wouldn't take a stolen car. No just stay on foot, man, walk, walk to where you need to go.
Speaker 2:You're right, that's right, and drive the speed limit.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Take a train, man Take there you go Like the hobos. Yeah, anybody will. Like, you can take a grayhound. Nobody checks anything on those Hell. No, stop a grayhound man.
Speaker 2:Well this guy got, so he got pulled over. He ended up getting into a fight with the officer, Like you know. He gets out of the car and he's going to, you know get I don't know handcuffed or you know. Turn around and let me check your pockets. Whatever he's getting frisk, gets into a scuffle with the officer and runs like he kicks him in the knee or some shit and runs away. Of course officer friendly didn't like that. So officer chases and officer tackles and officer arrests. Ted Bundy. Finally yeah.
Speaker 2:Finally. So they search his car, of course. What do they find? 21 stolen credit cards. Now, this is back in the day when you actually had the carbon copy, swipe that shit. 21 credit cards, three chicks, student IDs no idea why he kept those a pair of sunglasses, a pair of plaid pants and a television set. I mean, sure that makes sense.
Speaker 1:Well, I know they said that the credit cards he got from like a bar near the FSU University on the campus, something there. He must have been at the bar hanging out like swiping the cards off the.
Speaker 3:Or like going behind and grabbing from behind the I don't know if they held cards.
Speaker 1:I don't know that they held cards, but I don't know if the people had cards out or if he somehow got into the purses and got them. I don't know if. Yeah, I don't know how he was able to get old them. But that's where they said he got them all from that bar. People reported them stolen like hey, my cards are missing and they're all at this bar hanging out.
Speaker 2:That's interesting. I didn't think they used the credit cards that heavily Back in the day yeah, back in the day, Mostly cash, though, right For damn sure. Maybe I would have thought he would have gotten those cards from the purses he swiped from the grocery stores. But all right, if you say I mean I trust you. Yeah.
Speaker 3:What if kids today like yeah, because if their kids are going to like, I guess the malls really aren't as big as they were, but there's still some malls out there. But I guess the mom will give you a credit card to the kid that goes shopping.
Speaker 1:Venmo or a couple hundred bucks cash.
Speaker 2:Like here.
Speaker 3:Here's two, two Hondo. Go, enjoy yourself.
Speaker 2:Side story, since you mentioned malls, our very own Harrisburg East Mall has been deemed one of the there's a there's a shittiest places.
Speaker 3:Well, yeah, yeah, there's a term for it.
Speaker 2:It's basically available space versus what's least Harrisburg East Mall, now the Harrisburg mall, harrisburg mall is like the lowest on the totem pole, like I don't know, nationwide colonial Park mall Got to be up there to available space versus what's least. Oh, okay, I got you. It's a, so that Harrisburg East mall is a 995,000 square foot mall.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:That's insane.
Speaker 1:I thought there was plans to like they're ripping it down.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's what I thought. They're going to rip the whole goddamn thing down, with the exception of Bass Pro. That's going to stay there and there it's just going to be some other industrial park or some shit.
Speaker 1:Bass Pro does well around here for damn sure.
Speaker 3:It'll probably be the pie turned into like a card dealership.
Speaker 2:I wouldn't be surprised if they turn it into an Amazon distribution center or some kind of a chewy or a Netflix. Netflix, you say.
Speaker 1:Yeah, more to come on that More to come.
Speaker 3:They should turn into a Dave and Buster's like huge.
Speaker 1:They tried to do that Like go carts and stuff. They were going to do that and it fell through.
Speaker 3:That's a shame.
Speaker 1:It was a big amusement or like a like that type place. They have a buster.
Speaker 2:Isn't it? Then go through PS pound for pound. Look, I've been to a lot of movie theaters. I've been to a movie theater at the Harrisburg East Mall, the most recent iteration, great escape, the greatest escape, by far and away my favorite movie theater of all time. It was a nice one.
Speaker 3:Yeah, loved that theater Because you parked right there too. You parked right underneath and you went up the escalator and, you like, right in the theater. It was nice.
Speaker 2:It was genius, the way it was built, the way it was laid out, like you start it. When you walked in, you were at the top and you had no choice but to walk down. It was great, all of those theaters.
Speaker 3:Like you're saying, going through the line where you get your popcorn, yeah, you could get away from it.
Speaker 1:It's like right there it was right there. Loved it. I miss it dearly. Better than the East Five.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, yeah, not Palmyra Theater, that's where it's at the East.
Speaker 2:Five.
Speaker 1:Yeah, East Five Paradise.
Speaker 2:Alley, which later became Toys R Us, yeah.
Speaker 3:Oh, toys R Us. Yeah, I'm trying to bring those back. I heard, yeah, it was like a couple of left. Yep Kind of like a blockbuster, ooh or foreshadow.
Speaker 1:Foreshadow yeah.
Speaker 2:So this guy In June In the morning he was on the line, his trial begins. Not surprisingly, he continued to claim his innocence and once again, the news aided up. People still believed it. People still believed it. There was some massive conspiracy against this one guy. This is just him saying oh it's everybody's against me, I'm just this one guy trying to make my way here, and all the dirty cops, or it's circumstantial evidence or whatever.
Speaker 1:When he got to Florida they weren't fucking around down there. No, florida, florida's not a place you want to.
Speaker 3:Florida and Texas if you want to commit crimes, or Arizona now too. Thank you, governor DeSantis. Stay out of those. Stay out of those states. What do you think about that? You think, desantis, trump, those two?
Speaker 2:I don't know. I think it's too early, too early. I know what's going to happen on your ticket, though, and we'll get that. That's a deep state's conspiracy. For that I'm happy to get into that one. What, michelle?
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, for sure you heard that too. I do. I know that's going to happen. You're going to get the fit, get the and say he's unfit and give it to Michelle.
Speaker 2:Step down, It'll be after the primary oh yeah, it has to be, and the party will. The party has to be the one to choose it. You don't have time for another primary. You're listening to too much Fox radio. So, with only a couple of months to spare, trust, just trust, you'll see it happen. It'll be the rock.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think the rock Right for president.
Speaker 1:That would be.
Speaker 2:I heard that one If you smell what the president is cooking.
Speaker 3:Rock might, he might.
Speaker 1:He would win.
Speaker 3:That's what he's saying, Look man.
Speaker 2:If Arnold Schwarzenegger can become the governor of California, I think Dwayne Johnson could become the president of the United States, remember, I don't know that, all that stuff.
Speaker 3:Like you, kids are fat. You need to walk out every day.
Speaker 2:He couldn't get away with that. No, no, no. The PC police would crush him.
Speaker 3:What was that? You could get like a coin or something like the president's coin for fitness. I remember it was crazy.
Speaker 2:Oh, it's like, yeah, it's like a kid's gold medal for doing pushups and sit ups. We did that at McDevitt, I think we did.
Speaker 3:No, that wasn't when we were in grade school, was it? Yeah, it was like in sixth grade, or when was Arnold in? It had to have been like the mid 80s, early 90s. No, it was after that.
Speaker 1:It was definitely after.
Speaker 2:So then it was still don't terminate or shit back then. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but we did something when we were what, when we were in high school. That it was some kind of fitness something I thought that was like Reagan.
Speaker 3:Yeah, reagan did that for the fitness, nancy, and was it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was like a fitness thing. I remember that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it wasn't the Captain America one, because that didn't exist at the time.
Speaker 3:No, he's right. So I remember that, reagan, at like this thing where you could get the president's medal for fitness and they would if you could do like 35 pushups, 60 sit ups, whatever in like three minutes but, you had to like and like every gym class for, like I remember, for a whole year we like, did that. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I just snuck out and had a cigarette in fifth grade. In fifth grade.
Speaker 2:So having his uniform shirt has like a thing rolled up, that would be awesome. That would have been fantastic.
Speaker 3:All right that would make a cool little Simpsons episode. Oh my.
Speaker 2:God, yeah, well, I think there were. I could have sworn. There were iterations of Nelson where he had packs of cigarettes wrapped up in his. He did yeah, all right, oh, and PSI did not sneak out that cigarette, just letting it out, less than anyone think.
Speaker 2:Although kids out there, you're never too young to start. So this guy again continued to claim his innocence of the media aided up. In fact, he actually considered taking a deal at one point which he could then later appeal or, you know, file for acquittal. He said forget it, I'm going to trial. I got everything on my side.
Speaker 3:No, I'm innocent, I don't do anything. That's right. I won't take no deal. I think the deal was the death, the death sentence. They were like we won't give you the death sentence.
Speaker 1:They said we'll give you life in prison without you know no death penalty.
Speaker 3:Without a chance of a death penalty.
Speaker 1:And the day of the trial his defense didn't even know when they went in. He basically got up and had a speech. This guy doesn't believe I'm innocent. I can't have him defending me. Blah, blah, blah and he was like I'll defend myself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he kicked his defense. Yeah, that didn't work. That typically does not work, not for something as grand and as great as this. Right.
Speaker 2:Well, not surprisingly, he went to trial and he lost. The jury deliberated for seven hours. He ended up being found guilty on two counts of first degree murder, that's, the murders of Margaret Bowman and Lisa Levy, three counts of attempted first degree murder of Kathy Kleiner, karen Chandler and Cheryl Thomas and two counts of burglary. Now, if you weren't keeping score here, those five were what went down in Florida. That was everything that went down in Florida. He killed two. I'm sorry, he killed three, including the 12 year old, and then two got away. All right. He got two death sentences as a result.
Speaker 1:And that initially when he was going in, you know, when they were putting him on trial. I don't know if it was the prosecutor from Florida, I don't even remember who the guy was, but in the movie they depict this guy come bringing Bundy out in front of all the media and basically reading him his rights.
Speaker 3:Well, not the rights.
Speaker 1:but what do you call that Like when you're basically? What you're sent, I don't know what, what he's going to be charged with.
Speaker 3:You're being convicted of his convictions, or is?
Speaker 1:charging him with charges. And they did this in front of, like, all the media's air and Bundy's walking around like, oh, like. This is a big spectacle. Of course you're going to do this in the movie.
Speaker 1:They're showing that it's real life Zach Efron was doing in a match in a movie and I'm like, oh, that's pretty wild, you know. And then they actually show the real raw footage and it's identical Jesus. A lot of the things in that movie they did do pretty much spot on word for word as it was in real life, but in Florida, like I said, they didn't fuck around. They brought this guy out and they're like we're going to get you, You're going down. You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:They were.
Speaker 1:The thing was to lack shit, like then, like in Colorado.
Speaker 3:Yeah, wasn't this the first like trial that was on, like they had the television in the studio, they were recording this they had, they were playing it on the news, like like this is the first OJ. Yeah, this was like the first OJ trial where they were filming everything. Like Florida was like you know what. You all can see what's going on here because we're going to get this guy.
Speaker 1:It was the first televised Televised yeah.
Speaker 2:And I'll take this opportunity. I messed up that was so the first trial had those first five. I was mistaken, there were six victims, and the sixth was the 12 year old, because in December of 1979, he went up for a second trial, this for the 12 year old Kimberly Leach. Once again he lost, but amazingly, while in court this is, during his trial he proposed to his girlfriend and ended up getting married to Caroline Boone.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there was some kind of weird law and he knew laws that if you propose in front of a judge and jury I guess in Florida it's legal, it's considered a he would just do shit, because he was considered a bonded matrimony.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But they said he did that also, so she wouldn't have to, she wouldn't be able to testify against them because your spouse can't do that.
Speaker 1:That's smart too. Yeah, I didn't think it was, but also it also looked good on on TV. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Because everybody that everybody was like oh, you know he was yeah, this is a real like nice guy.
Speaker 2:Oh, that honey dripper. He's such a nice guy, he loves that woman. I wonder how many chicks were watching that or saw that on the news and just thought that's so sweet Well they were interviewing a lot of a lot of women, like after they were into.
Speaker 3:Like they are just saying, you know, I hope, I hope he gets off like I would date him. He's so dreamy and stuff like really 70s type.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he couldn't. Yeah, they were like looking at him, I just can't believe.
Speaker 5:I can't believe you would do something like that. There's a lot of that shit.
Speaker 1:Like I said, when you're good looking, not that even but he wasn't even that good looking. Even a little bit good looking is amazing when you can get away with.
Speaker 3:But he had, like he had that personality to go along with like, I guess the like. A lot of women are turned on by that. It sounds like crazy, but there's like a whole thing being like a murder and stuff you talking about like somebody in jail, violent, like, yeah, dangerous bad boy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the worst. Oh for sure, yeah, exactly, definitely the baddest of bad boys.
Speaker 3:But they said the judge too in this case. We might get to his name then, but he was very impressed with with Bundy at times, like you know what's a judge?
Speaker 2:Wapner no yeah, yeah, it was a judge Ito.
Speaker 3:Rusty was not ito either.
Speaker 1:Or a leto, but ito Judge Ito, ito was a leto.
Speaker 3:Ito was OJ.
Speaker 2:Ito was OJ A leto is the guy that's currently on the United States Supreme Court.
Speaker 1:But, um, yeah, if you watch the uh, the movie with Zac Efron, it's called viciously evil, vile, whatever. I forget what even the name of it is, but that was actually taken from the judge at the end of the trial, like Matt was saying, he respected Bundy in a way. Kind of in a weird way he said to him like you know, young man, you're a bright young man.
Speaker 3:It's, it's, I would have. Yeah, what a waste. I would have loved to have you work for me, yeah.
Speaker 1:You know work, you know work cases in front of me, blah, blah, blah, and you just went the wrong way, partner, and that was that.
Speaker 2:He sure did.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And then in the 10th 1980, old Ted Bundy received a third death sentence. Hmm, geez. So for damn sure this guy is now in prison. Lo and behold, not but a year and a half or so later, on October 24th 1982, carol Ann Boone, that chick he'd married in court, gave birth to Rose Bundy. Oh, this is another situation for conjugal visits that were this dudes on death row. You don't get to have sex anymore.
Speaker 1:I read that real quick and I thought her last name was at Rose Bundy conjugal's. Like the way I read that.
Speaker 2:Because, I was written on there.
Speaker 1:I was like that's a weird last name, yeah.
Speaker 2:So, on the from the conjugal's perspective, that's a just a note to self that this was another one of those situations where he greased the right poems and he got himself some, you know sexy times.
Speaker 3:He was just going behind the the vending machine, yeah. That's what they showed in the movie, yeah, and, like you said, that movie was pretty much. They followed a lot.
Speaker 1:I mean a little bit when we get into the fun facts. I got a couple of thoughts. I'm going to ask you guys, but sure.
Speaker 2:Well, all right, Well, let's get there. So, not surprisingly, while in prison he certainly attempted appeals for a number of years. I mean, you're going to exhaust that legal system as much as you can. In July of 1984, two hacksaw blades were found in a cell. He'd actually saw through one of the bars in his cell window and he glued it back in place. Okay, Sure. After additional appeals and a number of execution post opponents, Ted Bundy was executed in the electric chair on January 24th 1989 at 716 am. His last words were do his attorney and to a Methodist minister. They were Jim and Fred, I'd like you to give my love to my family and friends. Hundreds of people cheered, danced and actually sang outside of the prison while he was being executed. Like they were that happy. In the end he was cremated in Gainesville, Florida. His ashes were scattered in the Cascade Mountains of Washington State.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so that crowd of people that were out there a lot of them were Florida State College students at the time, in 89, we're like 20 years old they weren't, you know, they were there. It was almost like a party. I mean not to say that they weren't happy to see the guy die, but they were like nine, ten years old when these murders were going down.
Speaker 1:But they were just more there, almost like it was like a big tailgate, Like before they had like Burning man, no pun intended, they were there like almost like a big party. You know what I mean? Like oh, let's get together again a fry. They had t-shirts made up like Fry, Ted Fry and all that and they were selling stuff.
Speaker 3:They were a bunch of, like college students. That's what I said.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they were there basically, almost for the spectacle of it you know, but there were people obviously that were there. I probably had a vested interest in it, maybe families or the people and stuff but he was trying his hardest up until the end to appeal and appeal and the one lady that I was, I guess, had gotten him, had gotten a stay. Is that what they call it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, a stay of execution.
Speaker 1:A stay of execution. They were trying again here on this last one to get a postpone, but they couldn't. Yeah, there was no way.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:It was just it was time to like get rid of this guy. Basically, they were like we exhausted everything. He then changed a lot of his tune on basically oh, I didn't do any of this. None of this is true. All of a sudden now he's like confessing this stuff.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, that's where they said, you know, he thought he could maintain his stay of execution longer. And then they started bringing him these things, telling him people like we talked about this a little bit before that people needed closure and we could make this happen for you Just got to tell us did you do this? Did you do this? He was saying yes, yes, yes to everything. So they actually said at the end he was probably about 10 to 12 murders. They said that they don't think the 30 was reasonable.
Speaker 1:I've heard upwards of a hundred. It's just all over the place. What do you believe? What could be like of those Polaroids, like do we know of which girls? And like oh for damn sure. So how many of them do you know? Do you have a number? Was it like it's at least eight? Okay, so that's eight for sure. So the 30, like I'm wondering how many, like Matt you brought up in a previous episode with DNA, like can they go back and extract any DNA from any of these At this point? Why bother?
Speaker 2:Right, but just the tie the families had closure.
Speaker 3:I think it's mainly for closure back then was a lot of things. I mean it sounds weird, but we talk about this. I think this stuff still goes on like every day and you don't hear about a lot because these bodies just go missing and there's no way to like pin it on somebody. I think there's like people out there that just get bored one day or like maybe, with a lot of these like drug, drug addicts, prostitutes. A lot of these people go missing all the time.
Speaker 2:Drug addicts, homeless people, the bombs and hookers.
Speaker 3:They all they're going to die like crazy, especially go like upstate or in a lot of places like towards Alaska and things like in Canada. Around in California, even like here in Philly or Baltimore, there's a lot of places that were just like a lot of like prostitutes and drug addicts and if a guy picks one of these women up or men or whatever, they go missing, Nobody's looking for them.
Speaker 3:And they could be in like the bottom of the ocean. They could be like somewhere where people are just dumping people. You don't know these places and it's just you don't even know. I mean, a lot of this happens a lot, and I think you have a list of these names and if they can get that bunny saying he did it and they're like, look, this was the guy, he's a murderer, he's crazy. These people are like, wow, okay, we got him. He fried.
Speaker 1:We're good enough, so have you got some notes here? He says blunt objects, no firearms, widespread area.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I was looking at you know, going through this and pulling all this together. I'm trying to put piece together, like the consistency of his victims.
Speaker 1:How he went about it.
Speaker 2:So not unlike Jack the Ripper, this guy had consistency relative to his victim, so he would consistently use blunt objects to knock them out and then do whatever he wanted to do, like strangle and then take their lives, then rape them or rape while strangling, but it was always knocking out and almost always included strangling. Never used firearms. He hated firearms because it draws attention.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:The shot Without noise yeah.
Speaker 2:Plus, it's not as intimate as the up close and personal. Like there's a difference between, you know, firing from dozens of feet away and killing somebody, sniping at somebody, versus actually up close and killing them. And he did this over a widespread area, like he would. He started in Washington, then he moved to Utah, then he went to Colorado, then he was in Idaho, like he was just all over the place. I think that was just to okay, I've exhausted this. They're on my tail, now I'm going to go here and then I'm going to go here. But it was always clusters. It wasn't just like one offs, it was clusters. Right, I don't know.
Speaker 2:And I also had taken notice that all these were white chicks. They were all between the age, with the exception of the one.
Speaker 3:The 12 year old.
Speaker 2:His preferred range was like mid teens, like 15 to 25. And they were all strangers. Like he wouldn't kill people he knew.
Speaker 1:And they were all brunette seemed, and they all had that hair parted down the middle Like Diane like Diane, his original girlfriend there.
Speaker 2:there, many have hypothesized that he killed those particular women because of that Diane chick.
Speaker 1:That one got away.
Speaker 2:That's right. That's right. Well, the one that he the one that dumped him first, but then he went back. Whether then he dumped her, like just as that satisfaction, I don't know, but many, still many, reject that hypothesis as well.
Speaker 1:Right. So, matt, during this whole not I shouldn't say the whole story, but early on in part one and stuff, you kind of were playing devil's advocate kind of like, ah, do we really know he did like these crimes and all that. And watching that movie which I know you watch more than just the movie and in your research and stuff, but watching that Zac Efron movie, the way they filmed that movie, in a way it's presented to you almost if you didn't know anything about Ted Bundy and you watched that movie, they almost led you believe the whole way through the movie that he's innocent or maybe that he didn't do anything. They don't show him doing any murder. So I could see where watching that movie, maybe somebody would get ideas that like, oh, did he really do any of this? The only evidence that you have is near the end. He writes that which I don't want to give anything away.
Speaker 1:If you didn't see the movies, not like you don't know his story. You listen to the podcast, but where did you come up with that angle that you just think like where, no, what in the story or what in all this? Is it just because of the lack of DNA evidence and all that that you have doubt on some?
Speaker 3:of these. No, I know he was a murderer and I know like a lot of these murders were committed by him and he's people think like what's wrong with the guy. But interesting enough, Zap has here on the notes he has that William Hagmire guy from the FBI, Right, I think you were about to talk about him.
Speaker 2:No it's just there, for I mean. Whatever these are, just I wrote the. I had these typed out just so I don't forget them.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm glad that you had that on there, because I went in this movie no man of God with Elijah Wood and it's about I didn't see that one yet.
Speaker 3:And it's very interesting because again it's not showing like many of the murders or anything like that. It's kind of just getting into Bundy's persona. And it was about like in the late 1970s it was proposed that understanding psychological minds of violent killers investigators could be more effective to combat like these rapists, these serial killers, people like that. So they called it profiling. And this guy in 1984, president Reagan, he started the National Center for the Analysis of Violent Crime and it contained full-time profiler positions. This Hagmire guy was one of the original five that they picked. God bless you, ronald Reagan. Exactly Like the guy we brought him up earlier with the fitness.
Speaker 2:When do you stop giving Saint Ron he?
Speaker 3:should be. He should be Saint Hood, god bless you. He was in Catholic, though. What was he like?
Speaker 2:Protestant, he was an actor, the greatest man alive His country has ever seen.
Speaker 3:But I'm saying, can we make him a saint in the Catholic church even though he wasn't?
Speaker 1:Yeah, you could.
Speaker 3:We should do that.
Speaker 2:I would make that appeal to the Pope today if I gave a shit about the current Pope.
Speaker 3:That guy is a All not a fan, that guy that he's. No John Paul, this correct, yeah. But this bill hagmeyer guy, he was a special agent. He was from Pittsburgh and actually a slippery rock University graduate oh, we know somebody, yeah. So he was from PA and that was that's one thing that he kind of got close to a bunny with bunnies like why a guy from PA like he's like you must be smart because you know nobody. When he's slippery rock, he's like tell me more about that. So they kind of became friends.
Speaker 3:He was working with hagmeyer a lot and and a bunny was giving up some stuff on the Green River killer and so that yeah, he was profiling them and stuff and and hagmeyer was like you're pretty good, like you got this to a tee and the thing that was like so crazy. The two became like really good friends. And for coming up with Hagmeyer had something to do directly with the death of Bundy, because during this a group of psychologists from Florida interviewed Bundy. They found him sane and then a group for the defendant side found him insane. So hagmeyer being a special agent to this case, he was the one that they came to and said I know, you have a relationship with Bundy. Is this guy? Is he nuts or is he sane, as he know what he's doing? And hagmeyer said he's probably one of the most sanest people you ever meet.
Speaker 3:He just had a thing for murder, yeah and and that was what hagmeyer saying is one of the scariest things about people like this Is it's just that People can just be a regular person, have family, go to church, have friends, be the most normal person in the world, and they just get an itch.
Speaker 1:That's pretty smart for being a guy from family guy right, yeah, wait, is there a guy in family guy named that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, giggy giggy.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's right.
Speaker 2:Quagmire, oh sorry.
Speaker 1:Yeah, quagmire forgot about it. Yeah, it's a good reference.
Speaker 2:So it's, so, it's I. What I had noted here is during those those hagmeyer interviews that this is where this is where all this is, where old Ted would come out and he, he started, not started to, he actually did. He talked about what he would do with the, the corpses, like afterwards, so he would go, he would revisit them, like this is a special spot right.
Speaker 2:I. There's a special place in my heart for this woman that I murdered and buried or put in the woods here. He would go back and have sex with their corpses, yeah, until the rotwood, like until it would get so no pungent stinky that he couldn't do it anymore. He would go back to the dead corpse. He would put makeup on them. There was one he actually would wash and shampoo her hair, and that was Laura Amy. Wow and he had collected 12 heads.
Speaker 3:Damn 12 now with these. These weren't found. These were just from his accounts.
Speaker 2:Well, they found. If I, without even looking back at my notes, I'm pretty sure I'd mentioned they found four of them. Okay, pretty sure In my notes. Again, there's so much to this guy. I'm sure I missed something somewhere. But again, he claims he took 12 heads and also.
Speaker 1:So I saw here's that you had written about how he never took Responsibility and the grandfather, the single mother, like blaming on everybody and the porno stuff that he kind of blamed it on. Yep, and we were talking about that outside before we started recording. But there was some magazines he was into as a kid I guess that they kind of glamorized true crime had like women on the front of the magazine.
Speaker 1:Sure like detective noir Right and he kidnapping and murder and he and he, I guess, attached those images to like arousal, and I think Ed Gein we were talking about had a similar. But there was also rumors that his grandfather had a porn stash and he found that and who's porn?
Speaker 2:porn, porn, but a lot of. What old man doesn't have a porn stash? Yeah, that's it. For Christ's sake, I could open up my phone right now.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, he said that in an interview before he, before he was put to death. They had a guy coming from a church.
Speaker 1:Well, he was trying to get that, yeah, and that's it back him, you know.
Speaker 3:And that's when he started saying all this stuff about like having sex with rotting corpses and stuff to make him sound as Crazy as he could sound. So they'd be like dude, I can feel you yeah dude, I'm nuts like I'm crazy, and that's where this Hagmeir guys, these guys full of shit, like he did it because he enjoyed it right, yeah, that's, that's just. But then I like who? Like Dave said, could have been 30 murders, could have been a hundred, could have been 200, we don't know who's. No way to know even know.
Speaker 2:Now it is interesting that, matt, you would mention that he just is crazy. He does what he wants. Indeed, in Machado and some Ainsworth interviews he had mentioned the things like the. He had likened it to to stealing, like so he again he would shoplift, he took those chicks, purses, burglary, robbery. I mean he needed money at some point. For him it was a matter of this killing, it was a matter of possession. Like I take what I want right. Like that's his motivation, is just that's it.
Speaker 2:Our system it becomes his whole, his whole life. And the same reason for keeping the remains, like burying the remains, like, well, I, I got this, like I took what I want. I'm not gonna just give it away right, or let it be found. I'm gonna bury it, I'm gonna come back to it and I'm gonna dig it up and I'm gonna have sex with it, I'm gonna wash the hair and I'm gonna put makeup on. This guy's a creepy dude.
Speaker 3:Like a size of the lambs. He's like makeup. He's like dancing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, it was Buffalo Bill.
Speaker 2:It took the longest time for him to Ultimately, you know, to get to where he was, where, where you concluded to say, well, yeah, I can, I confess I did this. That you know. I think for him it goes back to that Not unlike his grandparents that there was a stigma of guilt, like he did not want to take responsibility, like he was very, very, very concerned about his appearance, and that's not just physically. I'm saying like in society he there's this stigma right. Like I I don't want as the grandfather. Well, I don't want my daughter being a single mother here. I'm just gonna call Ted my own kid and just pretend like he is or tell people that he is, that Rolled down to Ted, like I don't want to be Looked at as a murderer. I can't let people know that I'm a psychopath right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you just kind of hide it and that's how it was with mental illness and a lot of things back in the day, like you just had to hide everything and pretend like nothing's wrong and Just put on this person like this front, like oh, everything's fine.
Speaker 2:This guy this guy hit it so well and. I mean so well that it again, once he finally confessed to to the 30, the all-in, all-in total of 30, that is what finally led to convince Carol Ann Boone that maybe he's guilty, that maybe he's guilty. Yeah, I mean until he did not? Prior to that, she still believed and praised for his innocence.
Speaker 1:Hmm and I was hoping my son would be here. He was telling me, you know, he said all you're doing, ted Bundy, and I'm like, yeah, he's like, did you hear that story about the hikers? I'm like, what are you talking about? And he told me this story. I looked it up and sure enough, there's stuff out there on this. So I guess he had told an investigator or maybe somebody in there interviewing him, that the closest he ever got to being caught Before the end here, when he did finally get caught, he was, I guess, moving a body in Utah out in the woods.
Speaker 1:And these hikers came along, a guy and a girl, a couple, when it was dark like pitch black out, probably a little bit of moon, like like you had referenced, though enough that you could kind of see, and he ran off in the bushes and left the body there. Well, the couple walked and stepped over the body and tripped the guys feet, I guess, kind of stumbled on it, and he got freaked out and grabbed her by the hand and said let's get out of here, something's not right. He thought maybe it was an animal or whatever and they took off. But Ted was like a couple feet away in the bushes. Like watching all this, like he was dragging a body across a path.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he was looking at like I guess, get rid of the body Jesus Christ. I don't know what the couple was doing out at night like that hiking, you know. I don't know if they were at a nearby campsite, but uh, yeah, so that story there, if you got on reddit and different sites and stuff, there's people to talk about that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so again, well, like Thinking back to like we were talking about, like the Mafia and stuff like that, like these guys would get together and maybe like two murders a night, sometimes whatever and they were considered like serial killers. Serial killers are crazy because they were, like, ordered to do it.
Speaker 2:Or is that just something he did, or these guys, mafia guys, can't be considered here serial killers, because it's not like they look. I'm thinking a serial killer has a some sort of internal motivation like a satisfaction. Mafia, guys are just doing it for their job.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's something that they Way the FBI if you look at obit says, categorizes them so many murders within a certain amount of time, with a cooling off period, and all that what the Mafia is. Just like you know this guy. He's doing this boom, you know, but you might not have any action for six months.
Speaker 3:I just I don't understand why they don't think it like their minds being the same as what you would think like a. Well, they're murder yeah that's what I mean, they're told they're told to do it.
Speaker 2:It's part of their job, right?
Speaker 3:Yes, but like what, if this, what if, like serial killers are thinking of like as kind of like their hobby, like that's their job?
Speaker 1:Not their job, it's just like something they do, like hunting like hunting yeah, for fun. That's what they think of it, as I would, I would take it a step further.
Speaker 2:Even if they enjoyed their jobs, I can't say that anybody in the Mafioso could be considered a serial killer, because there is something again it's their job, versus like by job, like they're told to do it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like, or else we're gonna kill you. So yeah, you're gonna kill these people on their own.
Speaker 1:Yeah well, there's that one guy that you and I covered, matt, and this is before that Russian cat actually, if they do do it on their own, they get killed right, there was a guy that Matt now you brought the story up when we first started the podcast the Gemini method, and that guy Was I forget his name now, but it was called the Gemini method and it was because the Gemini lounge now this guy supposedly really enjoyed the Murder and dismemberment hanging people up in his, almost like he was our yeah, this guy was just like From the people that around them I guess was kind of into it.
Speaker 1:So maybe for somebody like that, like he had those Psychological, like I was enjoyed that. But who's to say who's. I think with the mob. It's just more, like he said, necessity. Yeah, you know it's a job. It's about that time, whoa, she really did come down.
Speaker 2:She did.
Speaker 1:She was actually. We should have had her do it right there.
Speaker 2:She came down, got a bag of chips. And rolled out soda pop man her timing is perfect.
Speaker 1:There is a fourth, mike. She came over and yell at me.
Speaker 3:She's always with us in spirit. We'll get her there for the fourth part of Dahmer.
Speaker 1:Right, right the golden D bondy yeah.
Speaker 3:Who cares? All of these?
Speaker 1:guys yeah, so this was a good one. I definitely enjoy. I mean, I shouldn't say enjoy it. It's, it's horrible the things that happen, but it's history and it's what happened.
Speaker 2:It was an action-packed three part in your face, pile-drive to the face.
Speaker 3:Podcast for sure. Yeah, we could have did a five-parter on this guy.
Speaker 1:I mean you could take this one on and on. Matt's got a sketch five guys just like how they Identified him.
Speaker 3:That's why his his girlfriend was confused five nights at Bundy's five nights, yeah, five nights at Bundy's, yeah that's on Peacock.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we actually friend of the show snowman, his, his sisters in that movie, oh, and they're hoped to have her on here at some point to talk to her, maybe on the vintage cinema.
Speaker 3:But she played the chicken.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the chicken the chicken part and yeah yeah. Informer. Yeah, so looky like you. Boom-boom down. Yeah, that's a good jam. Yep, but yeah, I appreciate you writing up everything, Matt.
Speaker 2:I appreciate notes and everything you had there, all of you your sketches.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you guys did a lot of good work on that.
Speaker 2:I appreciate your sketches.
Speaker 1:They're wonderful, his notes and his sketches. Yeah, that's a pretty good sketch, you should get a job doing that I'm gonna professional. But, uh, I'm not sure what true crime will be back with next week, but hopefully a good one. This should be coming out right around Thanksgiving, so I think this is the Monday of Thanksgiving week. So, yeah, maybe a surprise coming up this week, maybe if you're lucky if you're lucky.
Speaker 1:Definitely don't forget to find us on Facebook and Instagram at old, dirty basement and, like I say at the end of every episode, we work hard on this. Leave us a five-star review on Spotify. On Apple, you can leave a written review. You do this for free. Leave us a good review, helps us out a lot, and I guess that's it. You guys got anything else?
Speaker 3:That's all I got. I'm all bundied up, not that. Thank you for listening so we'll get you where?
Speaker 2:oh, on the flip side, if we don't see you sooner, we'll see you later. Peace.
Speaker 3:Thanks for hanging out in the old, dirty basement. If you dig our theme music, like we do check out the tsunami Experiment, find them on Facebook. Their music is available streaming on Spotify and Apple and where great music is available.
Speaker 1:You can find us at old dirty basement on Facebook and Instagram and at old dirty basement podcast on tiktok. Peace we outie 5000.