Charles Manson: From Disturbed Childhood to Infamous Cult Leader Part 2

Dive headfirst into the chaotic world of Charles Manson, a man whose twisted vision left an indelible mark on history. Our latest episode peels away the myths to expose the staggering reality of Manson's life, from his childhood bartering to his foray into the music industry, and the birth of his deadly cult. It's a story that intertwines with the very fabric of the 60s, capturing a time when music was a beacon for change and a magnet for the lost.

Get ready to be swept up in the whirlwind that was the Manson Family—a group that sought refuge in the promise of love and acceptance but found themselves ensnared by the machinations of a madman. Our narrative tracks Manson's cunning as he infiltrates the world of the Beach Boys, spins his twisted prophecies from Beatles' lyrics, and ultimately orchestrates a series of nightmarish acts that would shock the world. It's a chilling tale that questions the very nature of influence and madness in a decade known for both.

As we gear up for the continuation of this saga, we're not just recounting tales from a bygone era—we're dissecting the anatomy of infamy. Step inside the mind of a man who could have been a footnote in music history, yet chose a darker path to notoriety. Don't forget to rate and spread the word if you're as intrigued by Manson's complex legacy as we are. Ol' Dirty Basement signs off with a promise of more shocking revelations in our next installment. Stay with us—the story isn't over yet.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:02

Thanks for tuning in to the Old Dirty Basement On this week's episode. We're covering part two of Charles Manson.

Speaker 2: 0:08

Man, I wonder how long this is going to go. I mean, this guy is so intriguing already. What more could we possibly say about this guy, man?

Speaker 3: 0:16

son.

Speaker 4: 0:18

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 0:19

So we hope you're enjoying the podcast, speaking of which, if you are, leave that five star rating on Spotify, on Apple, you can leave a written review and sit back, relax and enjoy part two of Charles Manson.

Speaker 4: 0:36

This is the Old Dirty Basement home to debauchery, madness, murder and mayhem. A terrible train ride deep into the depths of the devil's den with a little bit of humor history and copious consciousness. I'm your announcer shallow throat. Your hosts are Dave, matt and Zap. I love you, matthew McGoney.

Speaker 3: 1:08

All right, all right, all right hey this is Dave, Matt and Zap, and welcome to the Old Dirty Basement where every week we cover a true crime murder or compelling story. So sit back, relax and comprehend. Hello. Hello again, my friends, and welcome back to the Old Dirty Basement I am Matt with. We always again are Dave and Zap.

Speaker 1: 1:34

What's going on?

Speaker 2: 1:36

How's it going?

Speaker 1: 1:37

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:37

All right.

Speaker 1: 1:38

I feel like we were just here.

Speaker 3: 1:39

I don't know this is insane.

Speaker 2: 1:41

Well, it might feel that way, because we're still on the topic of Charles Manson.

Speaker 3: 1:45

Yes, and why wouldn't we be?

Speaker 2: 1:46

I mean, we really did a deep dive in episode one, and if you all haven't listened to episode one, by all means please don't let us ruin it for you.

Speaker 3: 1:55

Yeah, you can't go from like two to one and back. You can't jump around like that. That's not making any sense. It's confusing.

Speaker 1: 2:01

Yeah, I thought it was a good idea and I'm glad that Zap you did that too, covering it to go into his childhood and all that and where he came from, because I think a lot of times, like you'll just start with all the juicy stuff, yeah, but there's a lot of juicy stuff as a child and that was definitely cool to get into and cover. I mean.

Speaker 2: 2:18

Surely everybody realizes that you know this Charles Manson, this is a name. You know, this is a name like Jack the Ripper, or nowadays, like Ted Bundy or the what's his name Dahmer, dahmer.

Speaker 4: 2:30

Right there it is.

Speaker 2: 2:31

Or as if you ask Dave, it's a name you should know, like Hitler, hitler, yeah. So right to go back and to look at this. This guy's childhood, his upbringing, his it were lack thereof, or everything that he experienced, you know, until his adult years, until hell. We only got through until he was 21 years old. It makes a difference. It really gives you the whole perspective.

Speaker 3: 2:52

What you guys are saying I kind of disagree with putting them in the same category as the other names that we just said. Like the name, the name recognition is up there with those guys.

Speaker 2: 3:02

That's what you're saying. That's absolutely Okay.

Speaker 3: 3:04

Okay, Because, yeah, I don't want to get like like it would kind of it's kind of confusing it's the waters. Yeah, because he's very different. He's very different than a lot of the other people that we have covered or a lot of these serial killers.

Speaker 1: 3:19

For sure he is. And I, like I said, covering this, I knew the story loosely. As I got older I found out more and more, but as a kid I just assumed he was a murderer and he you know which I guess technically is.

Speaker 3: 3:33

but you'll you know we'll get into that Like I think his, his he seemed like pretty regular besides like the really fucked up family and the boy rapey, but like everything else besides like it's okay.

Speaker 2: 3:47

Well, let's see. Okay, let me see if I can wrap my head around this. So, with the exception of having been sold at the age of two years old for a pitcher of beer, it happens. With the exception of his mom being in prison for five of his first seven or eight years of living, she's just trying to make it. With the exception of him going to school while living with his aunt and uncle, while his mom is in prison and his teacher keeping him insistent, insisting that he stays at the back of class, and then his uncle making him dress like a girl.

Speaker 3: 4:20

Yeah, where it's punishment.

Speaker 2: 4:21

boy got to learn with the exception of pickpocketing, stealing cars, random acts of shoplifting in and out of four or five different boy schools. It's almost like a recap. It's all the same. There's no difference between him and us.

Speaker 3: 4:38

That's pretty much how he we all grew up. So I don't see, I don't see what's so bad here.

Speaker 1: 4:42

I liked the way he did that.

Speaker 3: 4:43

Yeah, it was like a recap, but he was kind of like, yeah, that was cool. That was brilliant.

Speaker 1: 4:48

But I know what you're saying too, Matt. Yeah, I guess we can't really put him in that category.

Speaker 3: 4:53

We say these names and people are thinking or maybe hearing, or everybody knows who Charles Manson is, but they like what we're doing. They don't know a lot of details. They know the big things that happen.

Speaker 2: 5:03

You don't even know.

Speaker 1: 5:04

Unless you're a super, super fan of Manson like you know and there are a lot of them you're probably going to learn something in this spot. I would hope you know. I would hope so.

Speaker 2: 5:15

I didn't know shit about Manson until high school, until until until Mark Mark yeah, I was going to say I have a story about that.

Speaker 4: 5:23

So Axl Santana.

Speaker 1: 5:25

Yeah, I remember in I believe it was an English class he's reading Helder Skelder. Yeah, so that book was from like the seventies or whatever. And yeah, I remember just vividly, sitting in class he was reading that book and I'm like God, it's pretty wild, I wonder what that's all about. But I really didn't know any of this stuff Back then. I just knew he was some crazy guy and I knew his picture with the crazy eyes. But yeah, last we left our hero.

Speaker 2: 5:51

When last we we spoke about our protagonist, also known as hero.

Speaker 3: 5:57

We don't need another hero.

Speaker 2: 5:58

Nope, we don't need to wait. Something about the way home.

Speaker 3: 6:03

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4: 6:04

Life beyond the Thunderdon, that's right.

Speaker 3: 6:06

Love that track. All right, pete, tina, she was amazing. God rest your soul. She used to get beat with a shoe.

Speaker 1: 6:12

That's crazy Well it was better than a bottle of ketchup. Yeah, better than a bottle of ketchup.

Speaker 2: 6:16

So when last we left old Charles, he was in his second stint in prison for seven years. This is when he had married Leona Ray, aka Candy. She'd gotten divorced for him in 63, while he was still in prison. Oh, that's where we were. Yeah, he was learning the fine ancient art of hypnosis while in prison.

Speaker 2: 6:41

All right. Well, all good things must come to an end. So upon Manson's release from prison in 1967, he moved to the San Francisco area, Berkeley specifically. Fun fact, Manson had actually requested to stay in prison. This is absolutely true story. He was getting released in 67. He'd already spent more than half of his life in prison already, and it was all that he really knew.

Speaker 1: 7:10

I hear that a lot with criminals career criminals when they get out they can't cope with regular life institutionalized.

Speaker 3: 7:19

That was a who was that institutionalized? That is suicidal tendencies, yeah.

Speaker 2: 7:23

I was also mentioned in the Shawshank redemption. I don't, I just want to Pepsi, yeah, yeah that's what happened to what's the guy that hung himself, the old man Um.

Speaker 3: 7:32

Coons Verne's? No, somebody was here, yeah, but he hung himself correct, because the life was too fast, yep, and the grocery store was scary.

Speaker 2: 7:44

Well, on his release again, he wanted to stay in. Of course you get released from prison, you get a probation officer. It is very interesting, extremely interesting, I mean beyond coincidental. This is life changing that this guy's probation officer would become such a significant factor in Manson becoming the Manson that we all know.

Speaker 1: 8:06

Yeah, and I didn't know any of this stuff. Yeah, this is wild.

Speaker 2: 8:11

So Manson's probation officer's name was Roger Smith. Now Roger Smith Ran a local medical clinic where he performed research on subjects under the effects of LSD. Now think about that. Now think about that. This guy is whatever medical dude, medical profession, a doctor, for all I know, scientist, clearly a researcher, and he's doing research, oftentimes stuff like this. By the way, this was done in the con, in conjunction with the government, with the United States Government MK, ultra or whatever absolutely, man, cia was doing this stuff.

Speaker 2: 8:46

All kinds of crazy shit. So this guy Again LSD and mind control Happens to pick up. Not mind control, but mind warping again LSD, the effects on the people he happens to get. This ex-prisoner or this, this guy on parole who was absolutely fascinated and loved with hypnosis Is that not? Am I the only one that's picking up what that means? Like this is huge. Yeah this is like the chocolate meeting the peanut butter. Yeah, everything's coming together straight trip in yeah right with my Nina and my penta.

Speaker 2: 9:19

So, not surprisingly, this, you know, this guy, this Roger Smith, with his parolees, he's certainly gonna use them at, or offer to use them, as his test subjects, right? So not surprisingly, manson took a shine to LSD and realized its effects. He also learned how to channel his hypnosis, his Hypnosis abilities, into his subjects that were under the influence of LSD, of course. Forever seeking the attention He'd been denied as a child, manson established himself as a guru and the Manson family was soon to be born, ps. This was in 1967, during what is known as the summer of love, yeah.

Speaker 3: 10:04

so Manson's in prison and Things are a little different when he goes in now. He gets out and he realizes like Women are free spirited, yeah, like people are having sex, doing drugs, like everything is just like sex love, rock and roll, the the world where he lives, there in San Francisco and at Berkeley, has completely changed and he's like, wow, this, this isn't so bad.

Speaker 2: 10:25

I like he came out, it was my god. It was a All the day, all day long vacation. It was wonderful.

Speaker 4: 10:32

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 10:33

Matt, you know I didn't, I didn't really piece that together like what a difference in time 1960 versus 1967 was we are talking coming out of the 50s, so it's like the greaser type stuff like everybody's like.

Speaker 3: 10:46

You know, yeah, yeah, like everything. And you know you trying to date the cheerleader girl, stuff like that, and then you're going from that to these women that Could care less what they're wearing, like wearing hardly anything, you know, dancing free, just wanting to like make love, do all this like cool shit. No bras, no bra. Yeah, he's just like, wow, like this is where I'm fitting in. No razors.

Speaker 1: 11:07

Sorry, no, no, no. One other thing that happened in prison they, they had a. There was a guy named Dale Carnegie and he wrote a book, sure how to win friends and influence people.

Speaker 1: 11:16

Yeah, 1936 books. So there was actually classes they taught in In prison that they would select prisoners for the kind of rehabilitate them, help them learn you know how to Basically use these skills to help you get better in life or whatever like that. Well, they actually picked him, put him at the front of the the group and said usually had to wait, there was a waiting list like 25, 30, sure, inmates at a time, but they thought he would really, it would be good for him. So they put him in this class and he uses a lot of that stuff out of that book, along with this hypnosis and stuff to To play mind games on people taking a hit of acid doesn't hurt either.

Speaker 1: 11:52

Well, that helps too. Yeah, but he knew ways to Basically put thoughts in your head. Yeah, you know, without even like, make, like give you an idea, that's his idea, but make it look, think it's your idea. You know what I mean? That type stuff.

Speaker 3: 12:04

Did you read that book? You know absolutely.

Speaker 1: 12:06

Oh, wow, okay.

Speaker 3: 12:07

I made you read that in college, didn't they? Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 12:09

Yeah, so that was from 36 and that book still relevant, huh. Very relevant, like there's stuff you can get out.

Speaker 3: 12:15

That's pretty wild but he was using like these basic mind control skills. But he would get these people on I don't know if we're touching on this yet, but you know, on these drugs. And then all of a sudden he would like pretend to take some, or yeah, or not be on as many drugs as he's giving out. Like here, I take two for you, two for you, I'll take one. He's like kind of looking like and throws it over his shoulder. You know what I mean. Right, he does like the Chevy chase, like I was.

Speaker 2: 12:37

So it is interesting during this time, like all these stupid Harry Domass hippies yeah, our draft dodge and hippies, hippies, they're all looking for guidance. I mean, these are all kids that are rebelling against the system, but ultimately, either these kids have daddy issues or they just needed a slap across the face.

Speaker 3: 12:56

But the right place, right time for him.

Speaker 2: 12:58

Correct. All of these people are just looking for guidance, looking for something, and again, he, he's established himself as what is known as a guru. So this is also at the time that the Beatles and the whomever, the Beach Boys, like people were getting into this, this Hari Krishna, and this, the whatever Hindu and you name it stuff, where all of a sudden that was and vote and people were balls deep into that stuff.

Speaker 3: 13:24

Life sucked and they want someone to like, believe in something to hold on to. They wanted a reason for being here.

Speaker 1: 13:29

Yeah, it's funny. You said that's that because so right around the time he got released, june this is June 16 through the 18th 1967 was the Monterey International Pop Festival. Yeah so that was like right around this area. I think it was a hundred miles south of San Francisco.

Speaker 2: 13:47

This was the West Coast version. What's?

Speaker 1: 13:49

that before what's talking all that. So the bands that were there like that was mentioning the Hendrick, jimmy Hendrick's experience, the who, ravi Shankar, yeah, who you said, jefferson airplane, the Beach Boys actually backed out. They were supposed to play there one of their members, which which we'll get into Beach, Boys later. For sure I'll check them out but one of their members, I guess, was Dodging the draft, didn't want to go in the military and they were gonna arrest him conscientious objector.

Speaker 2: 14:16

Yeah yeah, you're a draft dodger.

Speaker 1: 14:19

So they were like we don't want to go there because we don't want him to get arrested publicly. There's people to say that was the reason. There was other people that say the reason was they were intimidated by these other bands that were more hip at the time. Sure, at that time the Beach Boys were kind of on a downturn. Yeah, they were going through now. They were hot in the early 60s 50s.

Speaker 2: 14:39

That 50s suffered sound, that kind of sound was starting to make its way out. And yeah, right.

Speaker 1: 14:45

So these other bands that you're mentioning and I mentioned here were more on the upswing.

Speaker 2: 14:49

Yep.

Speaker 1: 14:49

Everybody's getting into that the Stones Hendricks. Dylan, you know airplane.

Speaker 3: 14:53

Yeah, yeah. Jefferson airplane, that's right, Yo, they were really good, Hell yeah yeah, they were really good before they became Starship and whatever. I don't know what other Starship yeah the timing on this guy is.

Speaker 2: 15:05

I mean, this is just a perfect storm, absolutely a perfect storm, just drugs.

Speaker 3: 15:10

everybody looking for something he's there to provide and he's a manipulator.

Speaker 2: 15:14

He wakes up after a seven-year hibernation.

Speaker 1: 15:17

That of a Monterey International Paw Festival to you want to take a guess what a ticket cost? $20 now 11 nope, eight between $3.50 and $6 bucks. The artist didn't get paid. Not, I'm got paid, other than Ravi Shankar got like $3,000, okay, and one of the other ones none of these big names here, I forget who it was got paid because they did a documentary film there and they got paid for that. But none of these other artists got paid. Wow, they were there just for the exposure, I guess make sense.

Speaker 2: 15:45

Yeah, I mean that's, yeah, completely worthwhile to him. Hippies.

Speaker 1: 15:49

But I thought that was a interesting tidbit around this time to put it in perspective.

Speaker 2: 15:53

Like you know, it's kind of like what we're doing, you know we're not, we're not here for the money yet, not yet. No, we're doing this for the exposure.

Speaker 3: 16:00

That's right. Yeah, it's, I call it the three summers of love. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 16:04

Three is getting there.

Speaker 2: 16:05

This is gonna be our year. 2024 is gonna be. This one will put us over the edge. We hear the cat.

Speaker 3: 16:12

That's a great song to also a good song. Yes, we should do like a, like a play, like at a local school or something.

Speaker 1: 16:19

Yeah, I Think that'd be good fundraiser at a local school. Sure, yeah, anything start anyway and call it XL. Yep, oh, that'd be great.

Speaker 2: 16:28

So where were we? Oh, this guy was on his way to forming the Manson family summer of love. All right, so a bit on the Manson family, if I may. As we've discussed by now, charles was a fantastic manipulator, and he did. He became so successful because he preyed on Basically insecure chicks and social outcasts. So, like ugly dudes, dopey dudes just rejected dudes and Insecure chicks. Which is that's?

Speaker 3: 16:58

not hard to find. Trying to say I'd hang out with Manson, yeah well, not surprisingly so, here we go.

Speaker 2: 17:08

The now the first member of the family was a chick. Now it was Mary Bruner. Now she was a college graduate. But again, insecurity can go a long way and can be lifelong. In fact, it didn't take him long to actually move in with her. The second member of the family was Lynette from a, a Teenage runaway. So in no time oh, ps, he also. He convinced Mary Brunner to let this chick move in to Mary Brunner's house.

Speaker 1: 17:39

Right.

Speaker 2: 17:40

Manipulation, manipulation. Oh, she's an outcast, she's just a runaway. We're just helping her out. We're just helping her out, okay, well, in no time. There were close to two dozen people living in Mary Brunner's place. All of them, as chance would have it, all of them were going to Charlie's Probation Officers Clinic for LSD and all of them were, in the meantime, being manipulated by Manson. Now, matt, this is exactly where it speaks to what you were talking about, as, as he's becoming these guys guru, uh, and he knows how the effects of LSD work, again, in his manipulating mind, he's giving them okay, dose for you, dose for you, dose for you, and I'll take one too. Yeah, oh, throw it over my shoulder. I'm going to do a minimal, absolute minimal dose while these guys are.

Speaker 3: 18:27

You know taking the max Too deep. Yeah Right, he's like, yeah, just go play for about an hour, I'll be back with you and then. And then he just does this whole mind control thing because he didn't want to be like he knew. He knew exactly where he wanted to be.

Speaker 1: 18:40

As to where they would be, yeah, and that that concert back to that again.

Speaker 3: 18:44

In this whole uh, I know, because I think you were so mad, you didn't go to the.

Speaker 1: 18:48

They were saying that it brought in, like these teenagers from all over the country, that kind of you know, fled to that area and flooded it Like thinking all you know, this is going to be this whole lifestyle. So you got all these like 17, 18, 19 year old kids that are showing up to this area of California because they want to be part of this whole scene, and he was able to go and capitalize on that. Sure, because they're showing up knowing nobody and he can see it in their eyes, like he, just like like the guns and roses, like welcome to the jungle. You know what I mean. You see them step off the bus and is just like where the hell am I at. So that kind of pushed all this into motion. Now you got this influx of kids that are very vulnerable. This was their Mecca and he's 30 some years old, now, 33.

Speaker 3: 19:31

Yeah, so he's, he's been around, he's been in prison Like he's played the game, he knows how to talk to people, how to get people to do what you want, what, what they're looking for, especially with these young kids. And you say that, like I've been to, I've been to festivals and things like that, and it's like I'm happy, god damn, I have been to some hippie fest.

Speaker 1: 19:49

Sure.

Speaker 3: 19:50

And I've been to some people we all know, and even the one with with doc that was. That was a good time.

Speaker 4: 19:57

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 19:58

And Santana, but it's a you do. You feel like you're part of something and you don't. And it's very easy, for those bands could tell you anything they wanted you to do on stage and you would do it. And you probably would do it. Sure, just because it's that time of your life, you're young, you're in your twenties, like the world is yours. You don't, you don't know anything, but the world is mine. There's nothing to to regret or anything yet, and to have that kind of power over young people is insane. Sure.

Speaker 2: 20:27

No guidance, no guidance, no regrets, no regrets.

Speaker 3: 20:31

I'm going to get that on my neck.

Speaker 2: 20:32

Heck, yeah. Well, by the end of that summer of love, the Manson family again. Now about two dozen people had found themselves in a school bus and they made their way to Topanga Canyon just outside of Los Angeles. My one cousin, his wife, actually grew up in a school bus, like in the same type like same fashion, oh cool, absolute same fashion. But her parents were. What's the word? It's a lack of a better word called missionaries.

Speaker 2: 21:02

So, they would travel around Again. They couldn't care less at all about worldly possessions and stuff. They just wanted to, you know, spread the word of God and stuff like that. So they sold whatever they had, converted a bus into a home, which is basically they turned a bus into an RV.

Speaker 1: 21:17

Yeah, like the Parchets family.

Speaker 2: 21:18

And off the went Correct. Yeah, like that, just like that. So yeah, that's essentially what the Manson family did here. Oh, on tax day, april 15th 1968, mary Brunner, the first Manson family member, gave birth to her and Charles Child Valentine Michael Manson.

Speaker 1: 21:40

You think Manson was filing taxes back then? Probably not. No, probably not no.

Speaker 3: 21:46

I think it was that hot chick on Boy Meets World.

Speaker 1: 21:47

That's what I was thinking of, that Topanga, topanga yeah.

Speaker 2: 21:50

Is it Topanga that's?

Speaker 3: 21:52

her name Topanga.

Speaker 2: 21:53

Topanga Okay.

Speaker 3: 21:54

I wonder what that name came. That's only the second time I've heard that.

Speaker 2: 21:58

I mean it's a canyon outside of LA.

Speaker 1: 22:00

Sounds like a porn name Topanga Canyon, topanga Canyon. You know what I mean?

Speaker 2: 22:03

That's what it sounds like it does, like throwing a hot dog down a hallway, I know, but Topanga.

Speaker 3: 22:07

I don't wonder what she looks like today. I'm going to have to look that up when.

Speaker 2: 22:10

I get home.

Speaker 1: 22:10

She was pretty.

Speaker 2: 22:11

She was very pretty. Now it is interesting, very interesting. So that happened on. Yeah, valentine was born on April 15th 1968. Not but a week or so earlier, on April 6th 1968, since we were just talking about them, the Beach Boys own, dennis Wilson, picked up two female hitchhikers, patricia Crenwinkel and Ella Jo Bailey, both of whom were members of the Manson family. Is that how they?

Speaker 3: 22:47

met. Were they hitchhiking or did Charles like?

Speaker 1: 22:49

set them up. No, they were just hitchhiking, completely random it was dumb luck yeah.

Speaker 2: 22:56

Fucking bad luck for.

Speaker 1: 22:57

Dennis Bad luck for Dennis, very bad luck for Dennis.

Speaker 2: 23:00

Crazy. So, out of the genius, as chance would have it, five days later, which is four days before Valentine Manson's birthday, first birthday day of birth old Dennis Wilson saw them again while he's just driving around. Now. This time, instead of just picking them up and taking them to wherever their destination is, he took them to his home, Smart move. Yeah, I'm going to pick up two hitchhiking brats and bring them to my house. Oh, and what's worse? You know, forget it, I'll just leave, you know what he told them.

Speaker 1: 23:31

What's that you want to come to my house for a milk and cookies. That's what he told them.

Speaker 2: 23:37

That's some weird perversion, that's not creepy. No, not at all.

Speaker 1: 23:40

And he was the drummer for the Beach Boys.

Speaker 2: 23:42

Yes, he was. Yes, he was the brother of Brian.

Speaker 1: 23:45

Yes.

Speaker 3: 23:46

One of the.

Speaker 1: 23:47

Wilson brothers indeed, and cousin to Mike Love. I didn't know they were cousins.

Speaker 3: 23:50

Yeah, it was a family affair for sure, and uncle to Wilson Phillips.

Speaker 2: 23:56

Any relation to Wilson's suede and leather.

Speaker 1: 23:59

Over at the mall. Over at the mall.

Speaker 3: 24:00

I think that's still open. I think the mall is being destroyed, but I think Wilson's leather, they can't knock it down.

Speaker 1: 24:05

Yeah, it's there.

Speaker 3: 24:06

They can't permanently.

Speaker 2: 24:08

You don't even know.

Speaker 3: 24:10

But no, this is crazy, though, how you're saying like Dennis Wilson of the Beach Boys.

Speaker 2: 24:15

That's the guy picks up to hitchhiker just sees.

Speaker 3: 24:18

But they're saying the girls, the Manson followers, the girls are actually. They were pretty attractive.

Speaker 1: 24:23

Like they weren't some of them, but I mean they were.

Speaker 3: 24:25

Wilson me picking them up. They were pretty attractive.

Speaker 2: 24:28

The three that they show later on, we probably figure out what he was looking for.

Speaker 1: 24:31

Yes, I can tell you, crenwin call not so much yes. Crenwin call, not so much, but that's how a lot of these girls he would get them. They'd be on the homely side and he tell them how beautiful they are.

Speaker 3: 24:41

You're so beautiful Again in the old school and they would never hear that.

Speaker 1: 24:45

I'm sure it was a lot of you know butter face action going on where maybe they were built or whatever, but maybe face you know face wasn't that great or whatever, and he'd be like oh no, you're so beautiful, blah, blah, blah, and they'd fall for that.

Speaker 3: 24:58

I'm just saying he knew these girls not at all. So the second time around, like you said, he takes them to his house and he's kind of like oh, I got to go for like a recording session or, you know, I got to go do something.

Speaker 2: 25:09

You just stay here, have some cookies.

Speaker 3: 25:10

Yeah, Just stay here, relax, chill out. And then right away they're on the horn with with Charles, say hey, man, we're. We're one of the Beach Boys houses. You got to get over here.

Speaker 2: 25:19

And that's in fact what happened. Dude goes to the recording session and when he returns he's greeted by Manson standing in his driveway, while a dozen or so people were now in his house.

Speaker 3: 25:31

Yeah, Lights on and dude see. That would be like who's this bitch?

Speaker 2: 25:34

Yeah, no, who's that bitch? Who's that bitch in my house? Get the hell out of here Right, right.

Speaker 3: 25:41

What bike? But that's what I'm saying. How many, how? How high on drugs was Dennis Wilson Just to be like oh, this is kind of cool, like. But I think he liked the way that Manson was just this regular little dude and he was manipulating all these women.

Speaker 1: 25:54

We came up to him and and yeah, basically hey, how you doing, you know yeah. And Dennis Wilson was. Of all the Beach Boys they said kind of like the most, like I don't know. I don't want to say naive, but just out of it kind of just kind of like he would all everybody else around him, kind of picked up a vibe right away about, about Charles Manson, but he did not Right, he would see, like Dennis is gullible, yeah, gullible, that's probably what I'm looking for.

Speaker 1: 26:20

But he would see talent or he would see something that they're like what are you talking about?

Speaker 3: 26:23

Well, they say it really threw him off. Is the way that Manson control these girls? Be like hey, take two more, take, take three more and go ahead and enjoy that.

Speaker 1: 26:33

As we get through this. What I kind of got to get out of all this is that, like that's, the deciding factor for most of these men, at least in the story, is the access to the women.

Speaker 3: 26:42

Yeah, oh yeah, oh, hell yeah, guys are pretty dumb Pretty much when it just comes to women.

Speaker 4: 26:46

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 26:49

It's not that hard for you to persuade us to do anything.

Speaker 2: 26:51

That's right, yeah, look all of you you're sitting on a million dollars.

Speaker 3: 26:54

Yeah, just enjoy it. Why you got?

Speaker 2: 26:56

it. No, yeah, wilson comes home, doesn't people in this house? Manson in the driveway. Manson and his family members ended up staying at Wilson's house for nearly six months six months, okay, into that.

Speaker 3: 27:11

Where was the rest of the Beach Boys, like nobody hangs out with their brother.

Speaker 1: 27:14

No, not really At this time, just a hiatus.

Speaker 2: 27:18

I mean they're all grown ass, men, yeah.

Speaker 1: 27:20

Who was the main? Wilson the singer.

Speaker 3: 27:22

Brian.

Speaker 1: 27:23

Wilson.

Speaker 3: 27:24

He was a big time druggy too.

Speaker 1: 27:25

Yeah, he was going through his shit, he was going through mental issues and stuff like that and having depression and whatever he was going through at this time. So I think at this time, like they weren't really bothering with each other much and they were on a downswing, like I said earlier, with that pop festival and all that. Yeah, they weren't as hip as they had been, no so he's looking for like something new and, like you know, trying to be relevant again.

Speaker 3: 27:48

Looking for love in all the wrong places.

Speaker 2: 27:50

Looking for nub.

Speaker 1: 27:51

Looking for nub Well they said he pulled up in a Ferrari too. I don't know if that's factual or not.

Speaker 3: 27:56

I saw that. Yeah, I mean it's red Ferrari like his hair blowing in the wind Convertible actually.

Speaker 2: 28:01

He's Dennis Wilson, he owns, he has the means.

Speaker 1: 28:04

Ferrari and then, when he picked the girls up, it was in a Rolls Royce.

Speaker 2: 28:07

Why not?

Speaker 1: 28:08

Who knows?

Speaker 2: 28:08

Who's to say.

Speaker 3: 28:09

I would have gotten the car if it was a Rolls.

Speaker 2: 28:10

Royce, I wasn't there, I'll jump in there. Well, mixing and mingling with varying friends and acquaintances of Wilson's, manson was introduced to Terry Melcher, who was the producer for the birds. Now remember that name.

Speaker 1: 28:25

Terry Melcher yeah, he's.

Speaker 2: 28:26

Son of Hmm Doors day. Oh shit, I did read that. God damn it. Yeah indeed Well, so six months. While there, for those six months, manson wrote and recorded songs with Wilson. One of which was titled Never Learn Not to Love, was later re-recorded by the Beach Boys and released as a B side to the single Blue Birds over the mountain. Yes, the songs Manson recorded have never been released. So he had recording sessions with what's his name, wilson, at Wilson's house. Yeah, but they're still in vault form.

Speaker 1: 29:04

Somebody had released him, wasn't?

Speaker 3: 29:06

was it Melter? Part of some of those didn't come in for a while was with Wilson. That's later on. That's later on when he was recording Okay.

Speaker 1: 29:13

He really wanted nothing to do with. He tried to keep him at arm's length.

Speaker 3: 29:16

Yeah, cuz he knew.

Speaker 1: 29:17

That's what I'm saying. This is Dennis Wilson's kind, of the only one, although I will say there was a story that Dennis Wilson went to a big party. He's a partier. He's the one of them, and Neil Young was there at one time hanging out Yep and Charlie's there and he's playing. He's singing and strumming his guitar and Neil Young's like this guy's talent pretty good.

Speaker 3: 29:37

Yeah, he said his voice and his yeah.

Speaker 1: 29:39

He makes songs up like right, all right on the fly, like when we're here, and he thought he was talented and he thought he was Dennis Wilson thought he was. But these record producers and he had.

Speaker 3: 29:48

Terry Most is a record producer.

Speaker 1: 29:49

These guys in the industry were like oh this guy's the time it doesn't right.

Speaker 2: 29:53

right in there there's a million to him out there.

Speaker 1: 29:55

So in Charlie's money he's like well, I'm an artist, like Neil Young's an artist and Dennis Wilson, right, and we know music and you don't, yeah. So he just always thought it was like they don't know what they're talking about.

Speaker 2: 30:05

This is, as this is going on, I gotta believe that this is Charles's Way or biggest desire, like look I. All I want to do is be famous. That's it I want to be famous. I see guys like this. I I want to meet them, I want to know them and I want to, I want to do what they do so I can be just like them.

Speaker 3: 30:22

Which led the ways as we go on later on his life doing things to try to be famous. Yes, just for reasons of that alone, for sure.

Speaker 2: 30:29

Well, so as the six months start to, you know Like house guests start to smell, like house guests are like bad fish, you know. You just got to get rid of them. After a while, fearful of Manson, wilson actually left his own home to go stay at a place in Santa Monica. It was like a base room, a basement apartment, I think. Yeah, not surprisingly, the Manson family remained until they were actually evicted from that house when the lease ran out, which I guess is why Wilson didn't give a shit. He didn't own the house.

Speaker 1: 30:58

It was just running. Yeah, he was just paying the lease.

Speaker 2: 31:01

So in the end the Manson family ended up taking all of Wilson's possessions from that house and Destroyed two of his luxury cars.

Speaker 1: 31:11

So in that book that I you know, I did the audio book of it on Manson, they threw out some numbers and I don't know how accurate these are. I one of them was at. Dennis Wilson said that he thinks that over the time that they were there they cost him over a hundred thousand dollars in Just basically. It was like that's not horrible. It was seven thousand dollars in antibiotics for gonorrhea because the girls were spreading around so much of the Rio, the gonorrhea like sexually transmitted diseases that they just were on call with the doctor's office.

Speaker 1: 31:41

Yes, and over another batch.

Speaker 3: 31:43

When do you stop?

Speaker 1: 31:45

What with what the sex?

Speaker 3: 31:48

Man. I just took the pills for this man. That kind of Rhea.

Speaker 1: 31:52

Looking good.

Speaker 2: 31:53

Damn baby.

Speaker 1: 31:58

Here's another one that I thought was crazy so Dennis Wilson, the record label that the Beach Boys owned, I guess, would cut checks for whatever bills they had. They controlled the money and they would send the money. So he was away on tour for like a couple weeks or whatever and they got a bill there for the dairy bill, for like milk and whatever else. Sure it was eight hundred dollars for the week.

Speaker 1: 32:19

God damn they called there like Dennis, what the hell, what are you doing with all this milk? He's like it's not me, I'm not even there, it's that family. They knew something was up like yeah, you get these people out of here, they're costing you money, they're costing us money. Yeah, and this is all like a group. Yeah, finally the brother Money that's going on and that they're bleeding money from it's affecting the whole business.

Speaker 2: 32:40

So I had read a similar number, dave, to that hundred thousand dollars, and in fact it is in exchange for that hundred thousand dollars that Manson had given up his Publishing rights to that song to that song, that he'd record it. Basically. Basically, dennis was you know. Look, man, you're into me for like six figures. Tell you what you and I recorded this song. I, I will call it even I'll keep the song and you don't owe me shit.

Speaker 1: 33:08

Yeah, it's a good deal, I guess. I mean, I guess he did change some of the lyrics correct, pissed him off. Sure yeah, he, because he was all about his lyrics and you know, don't change it, and they did change it. So that was like a big deal for Manson. He was most pissed about that.

Speaker 3: 33:22

Yeah, cuz they also wanted to put like a band in and involved, instead of him just playing guitar, and he was like no way, no way, man.

Speaker 2: 33:28

Instead of the Partridge family, the Manson family.

Speaker 1: 33:31

Right.

Speaker 2: 33:32

So they got kicked out of Wilson's house, poor things.

Speaker 3: 33:36

They were opportunists, though Sure, they're doing what they need to do these guys were scrubs, these guys were bombs.

Speaker 2: 33:42

I don't want no scrubs. Hmm, let's everyone be clear these guys were bombs. So, having gotten kicked out of Dennis Wilson's house In August of 1968, the Manson family made their way to spawn ranch. A few of the family members were actually familiar with this place, having worked odd jobs there. Once a dairy farm and a location for random Western movies, spawn ranch became a place for locals to go horseback riding.

Speaker 4: 34:11

Oh, yeah, that's nice.

Speaker 2: 34:13

Oh Well, not surprisingly, the Manson family made their way deep into spawn ranch as swiftly as they had with Dennis Wilson. Now, this was easy. Now the owner, who was this 80 year old and nearly blind dude named George spawn, came to an agreement with Charles. Now the Manson family members would tend to the chores around the ranch and the women of Charles family would tend to George's throbbing sexual needs.

Speaker 1: 34:44

Hey, man never ends.

Speaker 2: 34:45

In exchange, charles and the Manson family could live there for free.

Speaker 1: 34:50

So that that spawn ranch. Um, I don't know if you've seen once upon a time in Hollywood. Yeah so that's a great movie. They change some stuff in it. I don't want to give it away.

Speaker 1: 34:58

Yeah, and it's not gonna do I know we talk about movies and stuff like that, but this they depict that in in that show or in that movie, I'm sorry with Brad Pitt showing up there with the girl that was hitchhiking and it was pretty cool to see that like Tarantino's take on it. Yeah, now the spawn ranch, from what I found out, is totally gone now it burned down. Oh, currently you can't go see it. But the actual Place where it was at like some people go there and take pictures and stuff in the caves and all that but um, yeah, it was. It was like an old movie set. Yeah, they would say they would film like westerns and stuff.

Speaker 2: 35:32

Oh, 100%, absolutely. Again, it was a dairy farm, I think from the gate, and then it was after that died down. They cleared it to do westerns and then from there it was just continued. It just transformed into a horseback riding place.

Speaker 1: 35:46

So that George spawn was originally from Lansdale PA.

Speaker 2: 35:49

Hey, cash me outside, how about?

Speaker 3: 35:52

that they're also said that the spawn guy he didn't, he didn't really want them there, but Charles like started talking to him and I guess they were walking around and he started like having these girls like grab his hand and Start walking with them and then he's, like you know, touching on and putting their hand and he's, like you know, on his Johnson.

Speaker 2: 36:07

Yes no.

Speaker 3: 36:08

But then the Manson was like you know what, what can we do to persuade you? And he's like well, and I guess Charles was like well, there's a lot of ways of persuasion. He's like how do you like? And he's like well, I like this one. And he's like go ahead. Yeah, he's like enjoyer One other.

Speaker 2: 36:21

This dude's like damn and blind, and blind yeah.

Speaker 1: 36:25

One other thing he did too. They were actually getting in trouble for Like sexual harassment of the people that would go there. They would do those horse rides to the property and a lot of these guys that were working there would like. Well, I guess, when they're putting the girl, the females, up on the horse by grabbing ass. Some sexual harassment. Sure, since Charlie had the girls there, they would handle that part of it and there would be no, you know, weirdness going on.

Speaker 1: 36:47

So, people like the customers that would go there felt more comfortable sure. Versus these cowboys that were out there, like you know, trying to cop a feel and all that. So there was benefit for this spawn, they cooked for them, they took care of. Now. The house was a shithole, sure. They depicted in the movie and I read about that Like they depicted in the movie. The same way rodents everywhere and bugs food sitting out. You know, it's just nasty.

Speaker 3: 37:09

But they didn't care. I mean, they were on drugs half the time true, these are squatters, yeah right.

Speaker 2: 37:15

These are bums. This is a group of bums. They don't care what it is there they're. They're happy to be out of the rain. Right for Christ's sake. And their defense.

Speaker 3: 37:24

So they did just come from a mansion.

Speaker 2: 37:27

Yeah, yeah, I guess that was kind of a step down.

Speaker 3: 37:29

Yeah, they weren't a little bit of squalor, but they still had like a place to live, so that they were good. They were good. You're not paying anything for it, they're just there.

Speaker 1: 37:36

George spawn in the movie portrayed by Bruce Dern. Oh Nice, good actor.

Speaker 3: 37:41

Yeah, he's great. Is that, Lord Ernst dad? Yes, yes, yeah, okay.

Speaker 2: 37:45

I love that story. All right, so Charles to it. So everybody knows Charles Manson as a crazy guy. Well, here comes the crazy. So for the longest time, manson believed that there was a forthcoming race war, believing in it so deeply, he actually wanted to be ahead of the game when it came. So here was his plan. He wanted to create, of course, is a musician. He wanted to create an album of music that would lure white women, hippies, to join him and the family.

Speaker 2: 38:20

Now, this would create a shortage of white women available to black men. The black men would, in turn, retaliate against white men, thinking they'd taken all of the women away from them. White men would, of course, retaliate but would ultimately be defeated. Now, while all of this is going on, the Manson family would hide in an underground city hidden beneath Death Valley. The location, of course, of course, was only known to Charles. Anyway, man, you want drugs? Yeah, when all of the fighting, where it was to have ended, charles and the family would then emerge from the underground city. Charles, believing that black people couldn't rule themselves, would become their leader. In November 1968, the Beatles released the white album. Manson believed this album to be the Beatles acting as a messenger.

Speaker 4: 39:15

Indeed, according to.

Speaker 2: 39:17

Manson. He felt that they were singing about the same forthcoming race war He'd been talking about for years. Included on the white album is a song called Helter Skelter.

Speaker 1: 39:29

This would become Manson's war cry and that there was another one there called Blackbird, and he thought that was, you know, connected all the songs on there. He like had a connection that Basically what was gonna happen in his mind. Yep, I just find it hard to believe that, like all this shit.

Speaker 2: 39:46

I guess, though, like you said, when you're on drugs, like that, sure you believe, whatever of course, yeah, a lot of drugs, man, right. So it's people have the. You'll hear the helter-skelter story as we, as we continue on with this, and Charles Manson as a whole. But so many people are the belief that Helter-skelter influenced. Manson know quite the contrary. It just happened in his mind. It was just at the same time he'd been talking about his again, his idea of helter-skelter, which was this, this that was his old race war, this race war right which underground city Okay.

Speaker 3: 40:20

Yeah, only we know where it's at man, that's right.

Speaker 2: 40:22

Only I know where it's at followers. Only I do. But I'll take you there. I promise, as soon as the race war starts, we'll go we'll go there.

Speaker 1: 40:28

I listened to an interview with John Lennon and they asked him about his thought on the Manson thing and all that and Helter-skelter, and and he said you know to him it was just noise, like the lyrics meant nothing. Yeah, they just kind of wrote it down. It didn't really mean anything, right, and you know, obviously he he thought it was crazy, obviously like most people, that he would have connected that at all but, um, I was, I was watching some movies on you know, getting into this, some stuff on YouTube and interviews with Manson.

Speaker 3: 40:56

He was so many like all helter-skelter man, helter-skelter and like that's all he was telling his followers, like he kept on going on. This Helter-skelter thing like this is this is our time, it's helter-skelter, helter-skelter and he just couldn't get that's, that's all he was trying to get them to follow.

Speaker 1: 41:08

So just to clarify, the term helter-skelter was really just gibberish, it didn't mean anything. It was just a words that they made up. This is easy.

Speaker 2: 41:16

Yes, if you listen to the greatest example of what you would just said about John Lennon probably one of his greatest, I would say is the walrus if you listen to the wall, all it is is Gibber jabber. That's all he's doing is he's picking out songs or scenes that happened to rhyme, or he's trying to tell a quick little story that this little verse rhymes with. This and read and it's.

Speaker 2: 41:34

It's like listening to alert nursery rhyme or just a day in a life, yeah, it's it's dumb, it's stupid, it's not meant to be something provocative, but it's a great song though. Sure, yeah, but it's just simple.

Speaker 3: 41:46

Yeah, it's simple.

Speaker 2: 41:47

It's lyrics that are again. You would find this on Nickelodeon.

Speaker 1: 41:50

Yeah, the cuckoo could chew, chew, chew, chew sometimes songs mean nothing and you know that's correct and people try to dissect them when they're on drugs or try to play it backwards.

Speaker 2: 41:58

Listen to any Nickelback song.

Speaker 1: 41:59

Yeah or sometimes songs mean something that you would never connect, like I never knew, I never liked this song, but you ever hear the song. Closing time.

Speaker 2: 42:08

Yeah, so my sonic. You know what that's about. I'm guessing when they close the bar.

Speaker 1: 42:12

Oh, it's about being born, being a baby and the mother talking about, like it's closing time, last call for alcohol because his last drink that she could have, and you gotta listen to the lyrics next time, actually they always play that at the end of the night, usually Usually at a like at a you don't have to go home but, you can't stay here, yeah and he's talking about the kid like you got to get out, get out of the womb.

Speaker 1: 42:32

If you listen to look up like semi-sonic Closing time, excellent explanation. The lead singer actually on stage Like alerted all that out at one of this is recently, maybe in a couple years ago, and it's a song that all those years you just think is about a bar closing at two in the morning and it's actually about a baby. So. But yeah, so you could see where, with songs like you give, misinterpret what they're saying or whatever else funny that you said about songs.

Speaker 3: 42:56

I was saying just have mentioned nickel back. Oh, and they say like Pennsylvania for some reason has like a hatred Nickelback like other states. I think they think that like they're kind of cool. Really but um, yeah, I was actually talking about what I'm gonna dress for for Halloween this year and I was gonna get one of them wigs. They're Canadian yeah but they say Pennsylvania is like a weird state, they can't stand nickel back. We like hate that maybe there's intelligent people in Pennsylvania.

Speaker 2: 43:22

Yeah fun fact nickel back lyrics are actually written. I want to say it's like a fifth or sixth grade level reading level. Oh really yeah, so it's done on purpose, so these songs can be relatable to any number of different people. They're very simple. They're not complex themes, not complex stories, just simple, straightforward, like they're not telling the story of of Childbirth or getting pregnant, right. By virtue of closing time closing time right.

Speaker 3: 43:48

Nickelback, we're not tool.

Speaker 1: 43:50

We're not.

Speaker 2: 43:50

we're not doing vintage album review on nickel yeah basically nickel back lyrics are like one step above the walrus.

Speaker 3: 43:56

Right, just one, but I was gonna dress as him for Halloween.

Speaker 1: 43:59

There's these guys I like on serious Covino and rich and they have a band called tickle sack. It's like a parody type thing and they do. Those guys are pretty funny.

Speaker 4: 44:08

But anyway anyway yeah.

Speaker 2: 44:10

Well, the closing time. Nickel, back closing time, all right. Well, that race war is coming. So again, charles wanted to get ahead of it. So why not start it? Manson was anxious to get this race war going on. July 1st 1969, manson shoots but does not kill. A black drug dealer named Bernard Crow Now old Bernie was a rival of fellow drug dealer Tex Watson, who was a member of the Manson family. Oh oh, fun fact. Charlie's I'm sorry Bernard's nickname was lots of Papa.

Speaker 3: 44:49

Lots of Papa. It's a great festival. Anybody's been?

Speaker 1: 44:53

No idea, thinking of a mile guy, one of the guys that was Papa doc.

Speaker 2: 44:59

Papa, doc Medina Cheddar Bob.

Speaker 1: 45:02

Yeah, cheddar, bob shot off his foot, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3: 45:05

I think about the lots of Papa tour one Pock two, pock three, pock your Pock.

Speaker 1: 45:09

Knowing whatever he said spaghetti.

Speaker 3: 45:11

Yeah, that's all I know.

Speaker 2: 45:13

Well, manson thought that lots of Papa old Bernie Crow was a member of the Black Panthers. So mid-July, bobby Boussoulet go ahead with that one? Well, bobby Boussoulet. What was his last name? Bobby Shea shea, that's a Bobby Boussoulet, she's the devil.

Speaker 1: 45:36

Yeah, that's what I was thinking about.

Speaker 2: 45:39

Vicki Valencor, yeah, yeah so Bobby Boussoulet was a member of the Manson family. This guy, mid-july 69 this is not but two weeks later murders this guy named Gary Hinman. So Boussoulet had lived with Hinman prior to joining the Manson family. Manson believed that Hinman had received an inheritance If I recall correctly was somewhere like 20 21,000 bucks.

Speaker 1: 46:03

That's it.

Speaker 2: 46:04

Yeah, so Boussoulet, mary Brunner and Susan Atkins yet another member of the Manson family Went to Hinman's house, demanded the money and got nothing. This guy's just simply what money? Yeah, what are you talking about? I did not. I don't have much, I don't know what you're talking about and I for damn sure if, even if I did, I don't have 21 grand just sitting around. Yeah, they sat there for like hours.

Speaker 3: 46:27

They said like torturing this guy. Oh yeah, just like I think. Yeah, yeah, yeah, just sitting a chair and just fucked with them.

Speaker 2: 46:33

It was days. And so, after all of that, charles arrived, slash this guy's face and ear with a samurai sword and then instructed Boussoulet To kill Hinman and make it look like a black man had done it. Hinman was tortured for three days before Boussoulet ultimately stabbed him to death using Hinman's blood. Boussoulet wrote political piggy on the wall along with a black panther paw print. Not but a couple of weeks later, on August 6th 1969. Here it goes, here comes the stupid Boussoulet is arrested, having fallen asleep behind the wheel in a car belonging to Hinman. Even better, even better the murder weapon that he used on him and was found in one of the wheel wells of the car.

Speaker 1: 47:28

That's not a good place to hide it Come on what do you?

Speaker 3: 47:30

say is that, if you're gonna do one thing, don't what is it?

Speaker 2: 47:33

if you're gonna commit a crime, commit one at a time. Yes, yes one at a time, in this case, keeping the evidence, stealing the car. No, now you're look at all. You're bringing attention to yourself, sir.

Speaker 3: 47:45

Like you say, if you're gonna drink and drive, make sure your car is inspected there. At least the headlights are work, that's like that yeah yeah, just one thing without the other unbelievable.

Speaker 1: 47:54

I picture that like that scene from reservoir dogs where, where they leave Matt's in alone, alone with the cop. Oh yeah, they have him tied up and he cuts his ear. He's cutting them up and stuff like that welcome back to radio 540. Yeah, they're in that warehouse and I'm thinking about this guy, this.

Speaker 3: 48:11

Bobby.

Speaker 1: 48:11

Boussoulet, like dancing around them, and yeah but Manson's actually the one that what cut his, took the the sword to his ear.

Speaker 2: 48:17

That's correct, so, manson. So he just slashed it.

Speaker 3: 48:20

Well, yeah, he didn't cut anything off. He just cut him on like the cheek. That was it. That would be what aggravated assault with the deadly weapon. Sure that is not murder.

Speaker 2: 48:26

But yeah, and so it was by Manson's direction that he directed Boussoulet to kill this.

Speaker 3: 48:33

So Boussoulet killed him because Manson told him to correct that is correct.

Speaker 2: 48:37

And so this was the first. This was the first Manson Directed or first Manson family murder. Now I'm not giving anything away, I'm not saying there's gonna be more.

Speaker 1: 48:45

No, wink, wink, wink wink.

Speaker 2: 48:47

I'm merely saying that of the, the murders, this was the first, so is that a crime?

Speaker 3: 48:52

Murder, yeah, yes, murder. But telling somebody to kill somebody, is that a crime?

Speaker 2: 48:57

I Wonder, and I wonder if we'll find out. I don't know.

Speaker 3: 49:00

I Don't think it is.

Speaker 2: 49:02

I wonder if there's accessory involved.

Speaker 3: 49:03

I wonder there is an accessory.

Speaker 2: 49:05

I wonder if, if more than one person is involved, if one guy stabs and the other guy slashes and the guy ends up dying, who's responsible for the murder?

Speaker 1: 49:15

Yeah, cuz. Who's to say that?

Speaker 2: 49:16

they get infected or something the stabber, not the slasher.

Speaker 3: 49:19

Who's to say I don't know, you don't even know. Get dub on the phone.

Speaker 2: 49:22

Yeah, j Dubbs, come on, J Dubbs get on the phone, bro.

Speaker 3: 49:26

Yeah, hey guys, can you wrap it up oh?

Speaker 2: 49:30

Dang again already. I know she's just on, it right just we just got into the first murder.

Speaker 1: 49:36

It's almost like she knows what parts of the story we're at. We should cut it off.

Speaker 2: 49:40

I don't know maybe, or maybe she just knows we get down here all jibba jab in.

Speaker 3: 49:46

Yeah you boys stop it with that jibba, jab and jib and jab shut up honky.

Speaker 1: 49:52

I think she's. He's dropping over there, mmm.

Speaker 3: 49:55

Her ear to the floor.

Speaker 2: 49:57

Man it's app is still talking down there. It's time to close this one down. I heard Matt mentioned prostitute.

Speaker 1: 50:02

Yeah, it's going there's no prostitute. It's a lot of prostitute. Talk, mmm, a lot of prostitutes.

Speaker 2: 50:09

These girls are just giving it away. Oh no, they weren't giving it, they were exchanging it, mm-hmm exchange a gram. They were exchanging it for a roof over their head. One hand job for a night's sleep. I don't think that's prostitution then is it Mm-hmm?

Speaker 3: 50:22

Well exchanging its barter as per for money.

Speaker 2: 50:26

So the you're basically getting.

Speaker 3: 50:29

To protect.

Speaker 2: 50:30

You're getting goods or service in it in exchange for, or I should say in lieu of getting, cash that would otherwise be used to buy goods or services. So yeah, I'd call that prostitution.

Speaker 1: 50:40

Yeah, okay, but this is now. They're getting in a violent crime that would. This would be the first violent crime. Am I missing something?

Speaker 2: 50:47

No, so Charles shot, but he didn't kill, that's right, so he shot but did not kill Bernard.

Speaker 2: 50:54

Uh, bro, bernard. Lots of Papa crow and, fun fact Charles actually thought that he had killed him, mm-hmm. Later on, like that day or like the next day, there was something on the news that they had found or someone had found, or a was discovered. A member of the Black Panther Party was like in a dumpster or found, you know, on the sidewalk, or some shit dead, like you know gang crime or some shit. Manson thought that it was this guy.

Speaker 1: 51:20

Yeah, and I forget who went with him to lots of Papa. But he, the guy that was with him, was the one who's supposed to grab the gun and pull it. Yeah, and he didn't, the guy froze that's Watson probably.

Speaker 1: 51:32

Well, tex Watson was the one that, um, the rival, the rival, but he that the whole thing with that was lots of Papa, I guess. He said hey, I got these drugs I'll sell you. It was like for twenty five hundred dollars worth of wheat. So that lots of Papa gave him the cash, which I think was a dumb move without the weed being there and and Texas appeared with the money and no weed.

Speaker 3: 51:51

Okay, he gave him a shit ton of weed and then he was like oh, I didn't return it, right? No, he didn't get many weed at all.

Speaker 1: 51:56

He got the money from lots of Papa in in return, saying I'm gonna bring the weed, that's right, that's right.

Speaker 3: 52:01

I don't have an army, or whatever. So he left with the twenty five hundred, disappeared and then the dude was like Give me my money, man, and that's where Manson came with them.

Speaker 1: 52:09

Well, he knew who Tex Watson was involved with and that's when he called the ranch and was like got a hold of Charlie, it was like where's tax at. He took my you know my money and I don't have the weed, and that's when Charlie was like, well, we'll just kill this guy.

Speaker 2: 52:23

Yeah, you know, we'll just go take care of it.

Speaker 3: 52:25

Griselda style since he didn't die, though, then that was, in a aggravated assault, attempted murder. On that one, correct? And an accessory to murder. On the next one with Aggravated assault, the deadly weapon, right will say not yet a murder.

Speaker 2: 52:37

Well, again we we have to see. On this we might have to tune in the next week because I mean, look at the rate we're dragging this on. You know Mrs Dave's gonna come down here and start throwing this.

Speaker 1: 52:46

I'm gonna get aggravated assault. Better wrap it up. But we hope you guys are enjoying this. Hopefully should wrap it up next week with the part three. You never know but we're enjoying it.

Speaker 1: 52:58

Yeah, you never know, don't forget to leave that five star rating. Tell a friend you're enjoying the podcast. Tell them how good this one is. You got to tune in, you got to check out their coverage on Charles Manson and everything we've done. So definitely leave that five star rating or written review. Hit us up on social media at Old Dirty Basement. And I guess that's it for now, so we'll catch you where on the flip side if we don't see you sooner.

Speaker 2: 53:20

We'll see you later base.

Speaker 3: 53:24

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Speaker 1: 53:37

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