Ol' Dirty Basement: True Crime and Vintage Movie Reviews
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Ol' Dirty Basement: True Crime and Vintage Movie Reviews
The Black Dahlia: The Haunting Tale of Elizabeth Short and Hollywood Dreams Shattered
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Can you imagine a single unsolved murder throwing an entire city into the depths of mystery and speculation? Join us as we unravel the haunting events surrounding the Black Dahlia case, starting from the very streets of 1947 Los Angeles. From Elizabeth Short's harrowing childhood during the Great Depression to her unrelenting pursuit of Hollywood stardom, we uncover the heartbreaking realities she faced. Through this episode, we set the stage for understanding the complexities of one of LA's most infamous and unsolved cases, allowing you to witness the stark contrast between her dreams and the grim fate that befell her.
Ever wondered how the media's relentless pursuit for sensationalism could overshadow compassion? We explore the role of media moguls, the limitations of law enforcement, and how societal attitudes towards women shaped the investigation. The impact of sensationalism on Elizabeth’s family and the public's perception of her life and death is laid bare. This episode doesn't shy away from examining the ethical concerns and systemic failures that plagued the investigation, offering a deeper understanding of the challenges faced by those seeking justice for Elizabeth Short.
What if the key to solving two of America's most notorious unsolved crimes lies within the same family? We delve into the startling discoveries made by Steve Hodel, a former LAPD detective, who linked his father, George Hodel, to the Black Dahlia murder and possibly the Zodiac Killer. Explore the controversial history and dubious practices of George Hodel, and the shocking evidence unearthed by his own son. We also touch on other suspects, but it's the Hodel connection that leaves us questioning the dark truths behind these enduring mysteries. Join us, and discover how one man’s quest for answers may have forever changed the narrative of the Black Dahlia case.
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Thanks for tuning in to the old dirty basement. On this week's episode we're covering the Black Dahlia murder.
Speaker 2:An aspiring actress, a gruesome slaying and a police investigation right out of LA Confidential.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, this is a wild one. Can't wait. Hope you enjoy it. Speaking of which, if you are, leave us that five-star rating on Spotify. On Apple, leave us a written review and sit back, relax and enjoy the Black Dahlia Murder.
Speaker 3:This is the old, dirty basement home to debauchery, madness, murder and mayhem.
Speaker 1:A terror-filled train ride deep into the depths of the devil's den With a little bit of humor.
Speaker 2:History and copious consciousness.
Speaker 3:I'm your announcer Shallow Throat. Your hosts are Dave, matt and Zap. I love you, matthew McConaughey.
Speaker 1:Alright, alright, alright.
Speaker 4:Hey, this is Dave, Matt and Zap, and welcome to the Old Dirty Basement.
Speaker 1:Where every week we cover a true crime murder or compelling story. So sit back, relax and comprehend. Hello everybody, sadly Matt is not able to join us today. I am Zap. However, welcome to the old dirty basement. With me today is Dave. It feels a little weird down here, just the two of us, but we wanted to definitely bring something to you. We got a crazy one today.
Speaker 2:We do got a crazy one today. We got the Black Dahlia murder or the Black Dahlia story, the ongoing saga.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:It just never ends.
Speaker 1:Now I know in the intro you referenced LA Confidential, the movie. Yeah, I don't remember in the movie. Was there any tie to Black Dahlia murder, any talk of that in that movie, or was that just at the time this happened?
Speaker 2:The Black Dahlia thing went down in 1947. The LA Confidential movie, if I'm right, that took place in 53. Oh, so it's after that. Yeah, okay, but I mean just the, the, the feel of that movie, as I, as you know, we were putting the story together. This just smacks of LA Confidential. This is the real life, la Confidential.
Speaker 1:A lot of corruption. Oh yeah, I'm sure a lot of that was going on. I don't remember the movie, but I knew it was close to the time. I don't know of any Black Dahlia movies. There's a band called Black Dahlia. Black Dahlia Murder.
Speaker 2:There is a Black Dahlia movie. It came out in 2006. I haven't seen it, but.
Speaker 1:I know it exists Wonder, but I know it exists. Wonder how accurate it is, I wonder. Probably not as accurate as his write-up, hell no.
Speaker 2:Hell, no, we keep it real. That's right, man Down here in the real field basement, yeah. So why don't we get into it, zap? Yeah, let's get into it. Los Angeles 1947. The city of angels, where dreams are made and nightmares come alive. It was a time of glitz and glamour, but underneath the Hollywood lights lurked the shadows of unspeakable crimes. It was here that Elizabeth Short, an aspiring actress with dreams as big as the silver screen, met her untimely and gruesome end. She would forever be known as the Black Dahlia.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and there was another. There was like an Elizabeth Smart. There was a crime with a girl named Elizabeth Smart Correct. Telling my wife about this crime, I was like Elizabeth Smart got the name wrong.
Speaker 2:Very similar, but I thought the same thing as I was writing this whole thing up. As I'm going through this and putting it all together, I'm thinking the whole time Elizabeth Smart, elizabeth Smart.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's what I had in my head. Elizabeth short here who we're talking about. She got her name the black dahlia. They said like, uh, like there were sailors or guys that she would hang around with, that gave her the name. There was a movie called the blue dahlia at around this time, correct?
Speaker 2:there was a black and white movie at this time. Yes, they had given her that name, the black dahlia so I had read something along the lines of a local drug store, a place where she frequented. A number of the clerks there somehow some way came up with the name uh, black dahlia. Oh wow, okay it was. I'm telling you, if there's something about a drug store, people at the local drug, the local pharmacy or something, they called her black dahlia okay, maybe that's it then.
Speaker 1:yeah, who knows, somebody definitely gave her that title, it wasn't, I don't know that. The media just came up with it. So somebody before that gave her that name.
Speaker 2:The fact that somebody it came out someplace and everybody clung to it. Right, Everybody clung to it.
Speaker 1:So tell us a little bit about.
Speaker 2:Elizabeth Short I would be happy to. Elizabeth Short was born on July 29th 1924 in Hyde Park, massachusetts. She was the third of five daughters born to Cleo and Phoebe Short. Her father was a miniature golf course builder whose business was hit hard by the Great Depression. The family struggled financially, leading to her father to depart his life when she was just six years old. I say that because his car was found abandoned in the middle of a bridge. It's assumed he'd committed suicide. This event had a profound impact on Elizabeth's upbringing, forcing her mother to raise five daughters alone under tough conditions, often moving homes and struggling to make ends meet. As a child, elizabeth suffered from severe asthma and bronchitis, which led her to spend winters in Florida to avoid the harsh New England winters. These health issues had a lasting impact on her life and contributed to her family's challenges.
Speaker 1:This dad probably just didn't want to raise them. Their biological, didn't bother. Yeah, if you're leaving a car out there back then you could disappear much easier. Oh my God, yeah, you could disappear and reappear. So I have a feeling this guy was like midlife crisis kind of like. I don't want to deal with this and. I'm just going to be out Now, if you're a miniature golf course, builder.
Speaker 2:I mean, you're practice there.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, I don't know how successful I'm. I don't know many miniature Now I know, golf course, builders that are successful.
Speaker 2:The only successful miniature golf course builder I've ever seen was Kurt Russell in overboard.
Speaker 1:Oh, is that what he did in that movie? Well, there you go. They were looking for investors to build the.
Speaker 2:they were doing like the seven wonders of the world or all these other these monuments across. You know, the, the, the planet. So every hole was a different monument or different something Cause they had like the Sphinx, they had the, the Eiffel tower, they had all kinds of stuff. Oh, mount Rushmore.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, I mean, I'm sure there's money in it, but I don't know about how much money and how much work you get you know the stuff that happened like way back then.
Speaker 2:I mean it's look, look, finding jobs was hard man, and this is a time when you know Elizabeth's mother was a, you know, stay at home mom to start, and then, oh shit, you know my I don't know, I guess he's dead. We found his car in the middle of a bridge, for Christ's sake, and this is depression era.
Speaker 1:Correct, yeah, so it's all around bad. Yeah, everybody's having trouble.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it just hurt all the way across the board for this broad. Oh well.
Speaker 2:Well, from there, elizabeth had a keen interest in movies from a young age, often escaping to the local cinema to watch the latest films. Her love for Hollywood's golden age and iconic actresses like Marilyn Monroe fueled her dreams of becoming a star. Then, in 1942, elizabeth's mother received an apology letter from none other than Elizabeth's father. Turns out he hadn't committed suicide after all, he lives. How about that? He'd since relocated to California and started a new life. Well, in pursuit of a better life and chasing her dreams of becoming a movie star, elizabeth moved to California where she lived with her father for a year. With fantasies of fame and fortune, she hoped to become one of Hollywood's leading actresses, but she found the road to stardom to be exceptionally tough. Despite countless auditions and attempts to break into the industry, success eluded her. Elizabeth was known to have a vibrant social life. She mingled with many people, often dating military servicemen and aspiring actors. Despite her social nature, she struggled to find stability and often depended on others for support yeah, they're breaking into hollywood, breaking into show business in general.
Speaker 1:It ain't easy.
Speaker 2:It is not easy now I've been trying look, we're trying right now. We are trying, yes, we are trying for a couple years now.
Speaker 1:It's just not working. On the last podcast covering lou perlman, we saw that he had old agency dedicated to tricking people into thinking you're going to make it, you're going to make it 100%. I wonder if they have percentages on that. If you go to Hollywood, what's your likelihood of landing a significant role or job where you, you know, back then I don't know if it was harder or easier compared to now, but I just wonder how many like say, 100 girls go or 100 guys go to Hollywood how many, like say, a hundred girls go or a hundred guys go to hollywood, how many actually make it less than one out of 100?
Speaker 2:I think you think so. I bet the success rate in hollywood is where somebody coined or where the they coined the phrase one in a million. Yes, I would not be surprised if it's one out of one million people that are trying and fighting, doing whatever they can, that end up becoming famous. Now, this has nothing to do with. Nowadays Everybody's an internet influencer, or they want to be, or they're doing that shit. I'm talking actual, factual, real deal, hollywood stuff.
Speaker 1:Nowadays you can take chances from your basement, you can, you know what I mean, like we are. But back then you had to go to where the action is. You know what I mean, whether it be LA, maybe New York, I don't know if chicago had anything going on, but uh, you had to uproot everything and go. So I'm sure uh, she was out there, probably waiting tables or you know, that, all that stuff. You see aspiring actors and trying to make it, but yeah, they're doing anything.
Speaker 2:Hell, when we met with the, with the guys from uh miracle, yes, uh gosh. I forget which one. The one, patrick dempsey thank you, patrick dempsey. Yeah, not that anything Hell. When we met with the, with the guys from um miracle, yes, Um gosh. I forget which one. The one, Patrick Dempsey. Thank you, Patrick Dempsey.
Speaker 1:Yeah, not that, patrick Dempsey, that's right.
Speaker 2:Patrick Dempsey jr. Yeah, so when we met with Patrick Dempsey it was, uh, I mean hell, he was working and still is working on sets, set design, yes, uh, all of that stuff. I mean he's's still. Obviously that means his. You know, his toes are still in the biz right but from a behind the scenes perspective.
Speaker 1:I mean, he's not in front of the camera, not by damn sight right, and she's 22, like rough, like early 20s at this time, you know. So I mean I don't know what the window is on that to make it, but I mean there's a shelf life on that.
Speaker 2:but I mean, you, you watch any kind of movie. You're going to see people of all ages in there. It was interesting back then when actors were in, whatever movies they were in, they actually signed to the studio. They didn't sign on a film-by-film-by-film basis, it was basically like Like signing on a team or something. It was like signing on a team. It's like how music groups or music artists have to sign to a record label. Yes. Actors had to sign to a movie production.
Speaker 1:So MGM, you're doing all MGM movies Like you're committed to doing X number of movies for MGM.
Speaker 2:They don't care what it is, but you're doing those movies. That's interesting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, those were the days, yep the golden era.
Speaker 2:And I can promise you they were paid a hell of a lot less back then. Oh, I believe it. Yeah, it was a crisp winter morning on January 15th 1947.
Speaker 2:Betty Bersinger, taking a stroll with her young daughter, stumbled upon something she would never forget. There, in a vacant lot in Leimert Park, lay the mutilated body of 22-year-old Elizabeth short, cleanly severed in two at the waist. Elizabeth's face had been slashed, from the corners of her mouth to her ears in a grotesque smile, and her body was posed in a way that suggested a level of premeditation and ritualism. The autopsy revealed that Elizabeth had been tortured for several days before her death. The precise manner in which she was killed and the way her body was dissected suggested a depraved and methodical approach. The crime scene was meticulously examined by the police, who were baffled by the lack of blood at the site, indicating that Elizabeth was killed elsewhere. The whole thing was like something out of a nightmare, and it marked the beginning of one of Los Angeles' most infamous murder investigations, one that would haunt the residents and investigators alike for years to come.
Speaker 1:So they said. Once the police were on the scene, media was there as well.
Speaker 2:Police were on the scene. You know what I mean. Yeah, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:But they were there taking pictures and stuff. Media was there and one of the officers there said she was disemboweled. But keep that between us. Like don't let this get out to the media, because if we start getting people which maybe will come up later, maybe that are like saying hey, I did it, or you know, I know who did it, or whatever this fact here will give you know, we'll give their their story credibility.
Speaker 2:Well, if you know this, then you know. If you have, you know in advance. I gotcha. I mean, there was a lot of damage done to. That's ridiculous.
Speaker 1:And there's no blood. They said she was fed fecal matter and they found it in her stomach later, which is going to tie into a possible suspect.
Speaker 2:We talked earlier. I think I'm on the same. I was doing a little bit of digging before I came over and I yeah, I think I'm on team Dave for that suspect.
Speaker 1:And this suspect had a friend that was a surrealist artist.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Okay, his name was man Ray. Okay, okay, his name was man Ray. Okay, he has a famous work of art called the Minotaur.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:The way her body was posed, with her arms kind of up, mimics this piece of artwork. So do yourself a favor if you're listening right now, pause it, but come back. Go look up the Minotaur by man Ray, and this is the exact way her top part of her body was posed. And they were saying maybe this is a an ode to this work of art I mean that's not a reach right.
Speaker 2:I mean, once we get into the suspect land, which I know you did a deep, deep dive, yeah, uh, that's going to be one of any number of check boxes in favor of this particular dude now I don't know if you see that meme from.
Speaker 1:It's always sunny in philadelphia where he has the bulletin board with the strings going to the pins and like. That's what I feel like when we get to that part. Yeah, because there's just so many things to try to connect oh yeah, so back to this murder.
Speaker 2:I mean, so they had, uh, what's, what's that? That cut called it's um, the, it's something German or Russian, the, the some kind of smile, it's a.
Speaker 1:I know what you're saying. There's a term for it's like the joker from uh, like heath ledger, from like ear to ear, almost, yeah, yeah oh man, I forget it's.
Speaker 2:It's not like gorky park. It's not gorky, there is a word for it that's so close. It's like right there on the old tip of the tongue, but I'm probably mistaking that for a stick insect yeah uh, I, I just can't imagine. I I just can't imagine to be a policeman, or let alone old Betty Bersinger with her kid that just comes across this body that's cut in two with no blood, and the face is cut from ear to ear.
Speaker 1:Initially she thought it was a mannequin, because Does not, surprise me, does not surprise me. You would think that's not a body. Come on, you know what I mean. That's what you're thinking, of course.
Speaker 2:It can't be no. Well, let's see what the police have to say. The LAPD launched a massive investigation, but it was riddled with challenges from the start. The police received hundreds of tips, confessions and leads, but none of them led to a concrete suspect. Confessions and leads, but none of them led to a concrete suspect. The LAPD, in collaboration with multiple agencies, went as far to interview thousands of suspects and witnesses, even contacting people across state lines. There were inconsistencies and discrepancies in the witness statements surrounding Elizabeth's last known movements, adding even further complexity to the already baffling case. The case grew colder by the day, but the public's fascination only intensified.
Speaker 2:One of the biggest challenges facing police came from the media frenzy. As soon as Elizabeth was identified, local reporters called Elizabeth's mother, who lived in Boston, and alerted her that her daughter had won a beauty contest. Little did she know reporters were actually prying information about Elizabeth from her in order to get the juiciest story they could Soon after, headlines screamed of the Black Dahlia murder and every detail of Elizabeth's life was put under a microscope. So that's messed up, man. That's horrible dude. That is all. Hey, mrs Dahlia. I'm sorry, mrs Short. Hey, your daughter won a beauty contest. Why don't you? Could you give us a little background on her? In reality, her daughter is dead, yeah that's the lowest of low man.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean. These are like the paparazzi and the people that just kind of you know I get it. They're doing it for a living and that's their job to chase these stories and get that. But I mean there's no compassion, there's no. You know what I mean? It's all about selling newspapers or magazines at the time too, where right before or tv was kind of happening.
Speaker 1:Maybe I don't remember for sure the dates, but this was at that time that this was like the last really big news story. That was like paper driven, like paper selling papers, and papers only right yeah, I mean, um, people weren't really at this time. I mean, people had tvs in their houses, I'm sure, but it wasn't as widespread as not even close so they're trying to sell papers, they're trying to get the story I I get it.
Speaker 2:That's just to me crossing the line hell yeah, man, I mean I just when I'm just thinking about this, like we watch television shows and we watch movies and there's so many of them out there that will actually illustrate the technology and the, the resources that law enforcement or whomever has available to investigate crimes like this. And I mean everything from man black lights to fingerprinting, to dna testing to all kinds of weird stuff that can, that they can do nowadays. Back then these guys were just asking questions. I they were just throwing darts in the dark.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there was a lot of um like uh, you just interview people, hey, did you see anything? There's no ring cameras, there's no, like, street light cameras. You know what I mean. All that stuff now where you can, or even somebody's cell phone, you can tell where they were. You know if, if you have an alibi, could say, hey, look at my uh, you know my life 360. Yeah, the past couple days you can see where I was at. So, yeah, back then was definitely a lot easier to get away with this type stuff. Um, also, like we talked about and I'm sure will come up later, is corruption, yeah, and people just kind of making stories disappear. Now there was that I don't know about elizabeth's lifestyle. I know she went out and dated a lot, they said, and all that ain't nobody humping around?
Speaker 1:right, but was there any kind of uh like assumption that she was maybe like a prostitute or something, where back then maybe they wouldn't take that kind of murder as seriously like uh, we have other things to get to.
Speaker 2:That's right we've got. We have married women with husbands who have, you know, money and families. We're going to worry more about them.
Speaker 1:Right. I wonder if there was any of that where they thought that, like I don't know that she was, I'm not saying that she was, I mean equally, we've done murders.
Speaker 2:We've, we've, we've done murders, we've done stories on countless murders, and you name it even with, like a Jack the Ripper, so any of his victims? The police didn't give a shit, right, they didn't care. These are whores or bums, right, they didn't care about these people. Oh yep, another dead guy or another dead woman.
Speaker 1:All right, next step over them and onto the next. You know so with that.
Speaker 2:You've also with so the, I'm guessing so with the police, while they're trying their best. Maybe, maybe not. Uh, you'd mentioned it earlier, dave, that topic of well, look, she was disemboweled, but don't tell anybody. So, during this part of her story, these guys, the LAPD investigators, you name it they had received hundreds of just fake news.
Speaker 1:Yeah, people calling in.
Speaker 2:I did. Yeah, random people claiming responsibility for it or just trying to just mess with them.
Speaker 1:I don't get that. What that's about, I mean, I guess everybody wants to be famous, no matter what, which way.
Speaker 2:Infamous, I guess.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah. It's just crazy to me. I can't wrap my head around it.
Speaker 2:I don't get it, but yeah. So back to that media. The Black Dahlia case became a media spectacle. The newspapers spared no detail, embellishing facts and sometimes even fabricating stories to sell copies. Elizabeth's life was laid bare to the public every relationship, every job, every failure. Eliz's family, already devastated by her death, faced intense scrutiny and lived under the harsh glare of public opinion. Headlines screamed sensational stories, often outpacing the facts. This feeding frenzy only served to muddy the waters and complicate the investigation. One thing is certain the media played a significant role in turning her story into legend, ensuring that her tragic end would be remembered for decades to come. This is the part that I think reminds me a great deal of LA Confidential, in that there was that magazine, or whatever it was called, hush Hush danny. I just remember danny to be always going hush hush. So these guys, as I just mentioned, so these papers were so just scummy they. They were just basically making up news, making up stories just to sell newspapers like there's no credibility actually.
Speaker 1:Uh, hearst the, the hearst corporation, uh herle or whatever, like the ones in the news. Yeah.
Speaker 2:He was a, I mean, he was a media. He was the media mogul at the time. It was his life, after which, oh God, Orson Welles, Citizen Kane was modeled Right. So yeah, I mean, these were his papers doing this stuff, because he wanted to sell more papers, so he just gave him free reign. Go ahead, reporters, make up whatever you want, I will print anything you come up with.
Speaker 1:There was no. People weren't as litigious back then Like, say, you made up a story like, oh, you know whatever, zap ran over a bunch of kindergartners with his car and did this and did that.
Speaker 2:I did not do that today.
Speaker 1:No, no, you did not.
Speaker 2:Not today.
Speaker 1:To clarify he did not do that. But if I was a paper and I said that I wonder back in the day you know what I mean you would sell papers like, oh, this guy, whatever, but would you be able to sue as easily? Like, were people litigious back then?
Speaker 2:Think about the pockets you're going after If you're a broke ass. Elizabeth Schwartz, mom whose husband left her pretending to commit suicide, making them believe that he committed suicide. This pretending to commit making them believe that he committed suicide. This chick was left to raise five kids. What kind of money do you think she has to go after? The. Hearst corporation and sue.
Speaker 2:Not happening and this is at a time when, like you, were talking about the corruption and stuff. I mean damn, it was across the board. This money is going into this pocket, into that pocket, into the other pocket, to make sure that everybody's cool.
Speaker 1:Everybody's on the take.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh my God. Yeah, the police, the judges, I mean you name it, everybody was on the take. Elected officials, I mean they were, everybody was on the take. I would not be surprised if they weren't on Hearst's payroll.
Speaker 1:And this stuff always, even till this day, sells Like you talk about. We do a podcast on true crime and true crime is one of the, if not the top category for podcasts, because people are intrigued. I mean, some of the stuff, like this murder in particular, is disturbing if you really get into the details of it. People enjoy listening to it, reading about it, whatever you know, and it's all. I guess it's always been that way. Um, it surprises me that even back then it was as popular. They said it was breaking records for the papers they were selling.
Speaker 2:The more you sensationalize something, the more you talk it up, the more it becomes a vivid, vibrant reality to people and they're just going to dive in. Yeah, tell me more. I want to hear more. It's wild man, people are into it, people dig it. So how about some suspects? How about some suspects? Now, this is, this is where you're going to shine. I know you've done your deep dive, so I'm looking forward to hearing this.
Speaker 2:Over the years, there were many suspects. Some were drifters, some were jilted lovers, some were infamous criminals and still others were well-known figures in the Hollywood scene. But no one, not one, was ever charged. Theories even included a psychopath preying on young women. Each new suspect brought fresh hope, but ultimately they were all dead ends.
Speaker 2:One of the most infamous suspects was Dr George Hodel, a wealthy and well-connected physician. Was Dr George Hodel, a wealthy and well-connected physician? His son, steve Hodel, a former LAPD detective, has spent has spent not just had, but has spent years gathering evidence to prove his father's involvement in guilt, although this remains a theory with no official closure. Other notable suspects include Leslie Dillon, who was a bellhop with an obsession for crime, and Mark Hansen, a nightclub owner with close ties to Elizabeth. Both men were intensely scrutinized, but eventually they were released due to lack of evidence. As the years went by, armchair detectives and professional investigators alike churned out countless theories. Some believed it was the work of a serial killer. Others thought it was part of a larger cover-up involving corrupt public officials and organized crime. Some even suggested that Elizabeth's murder was a ritualistic killing. Each theory added another layer of mystery to an already perplexing case.
Speaker 1:This murder doesn't seem like it'd be a one and done. It seems like a murder where this person enjoyed it 100%.
Speaker 2:Let's just pull the low hanging fruit out for this one. So one murdered someplace else, two forced to eat fecal matter at some point prior to the murder, three drained of blood, four cut in half, precisely cut, precisely cut in half. And then what? Five, six, seven, eight you name them put in different poses, or I should say, put in a particular pose, like, again, like pieces or parts of a mannequin, like this wasn't just somebody that got run over by a lawnmower, like this is a bit. This was sadistic.
Speaker 1:And this is not their first 100%.
Speaker 2:Whoever did this enjoyed it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they were definitely practicing and probably leading up to this. And this, like I said, unless they died, which I don't think they did, um, I think they did more and I don't think this was their first.
Speaker 2:Oh well, I mean I might be mistaken, but at the time there were a string of them.
Speaker 1:There was definitely more than this going on. This is the one that got all the attention and the media attention, for whatever reason. There was one that happened three weeks later that we'll get to then.
Speaker 2:Just not as popular.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was in the paper, but this was the headline. The Black Dahlia Just not as popular. Yeah, it was in the paper, but this was the headline. The Magdalena, the name, it was everything and it was just catching people's attention. But when we wrap up the end here I got a little something on one of these suspects. Oh, I'll save that for the very end. We can discuss why don't you take us through the modern forensic efforts?
Speaker 2:Sure Happy to do it All right. Modern forensic techniques have been applied to the case in the hopes of finding new leads. Dna testing, re-examinations of crime scene photos and autopsy reports and other contemporary investigative methods provide a slim hope that the mystery might one day be solved. Some experts believe that the crime scene was staged, given the meticulous manner in which Elizabeth's body was displayed. Evidence such as rope marks on her wrists and ankles, as well as other indications of torture, suggest that Elizabeth may have been held captive before her death.
Speaker 2:Cyber sleuths and amateur detectives continue to pore over old evidence, chasing every shadow in the search for truth. Each piece of evidence opens more questions than it answers. More than a dozen young, attractive women were found murdered and sexually mutilated between 1943 and 1949 in Los Angeles. Yet the case of the Black Dahlia remains to this day one of the darkest pieces of Hollywood lore. Elizabeth Short's tragic end has ensured that she will not be forgotten, and while the details of her death remain elusive, the shadow of the Black Dahlia still lingers, a haunting reminder of a dream cut short.
Speaker 1:No pun intended.
Speaker 2:I was thinking about that. I'm phrasing just that last sentence and I'm thinking, oh, I gotta say cut short, but shit, it's too much of a play on a name. I went with it.
Speaker 1:It's perfect though it works. Gotta see cut short, but shit, it's too much of a play on her name. I went right. It's perfect though it works. It's definitely perfect, yeah. So zap back to those uh suspects, yeah man, what do you got again?
Speaker 2:I've mentioned a few times I know you've done a deep dive on this. I did.
Speaker 1:I gotta hear what you got this is the guy that, even without before we talked, you were thinking 100 if you're.
Speaker 1:If you're gonna say the one guy I mentioned earlier, I'm gonna go yeah, yeah, so it's george hodell there you go okay and uh, no matter who you are, if you, if you do a deep dive into this, this is the name that's gonna pop up as the most likely suspect, just based on his, uh, his life leading up to this and everything else. So a little bit about george hodell. He was born in 1907 and he was a gifted child. He had an iq of 18 Dang. So, to put that in perspective, that's one point higher than Einstein. That's genius level. That's some genius shit.
Speaker 1:Okay, he was a musical prodigy. He was a physician at one point. He went to school, finished college early. Actually, when he was in college in California, he impregnated one of his professor's wives. Now, this is a story that your mom goes to college, yeah.
Speaker 2:So he was like 15 at the time, so he was banging one of his professor's wives.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this is according to his son that's awesome Steve Hodel, who had written a book. He had written eight books about his dad.
Speaker 2:Why does this sound? What's the name of the guy that does the Motel 6 commercials? We'll, uh, we'll, leave the light on. Yeah, whatever he says, oh, his name is tom, tom, tom bodell, tom bodell, tom bodell. So I keep there's there's tom bodell, and you're talking about george hodell, george hodell or steve hodell, steve hodell and it's hodell which not to be confused with hotel or motel that's right holiday, that's right.
Speaker 1:That's this guy, like I said, gifted child, I mean brilliant, all that stuff. Finished school early. He faked his age at like 17,. Said he was like 21. Nice he started writing for like a local newspaper he would do ride-alongs with the LAPD at the time. Nice, Come upon crime scenes, write about it. They were like giving a couple of examples of his writing. I mean it's like AI wrote it, Like the guy was just vivid, Like you know what I mean, how like it'll pick all those words that are like so descriptive of a crime scene. This is back in the you know 1920s or whatever, when he's doing this and this kid's 17 years old.
Speaker 2:Well, people weren't distracted with text messages and checking Instagram and whatever the hell they're checking anymore Facey space.
Speaker 1:Right, like you read some of this guy's stuff, it's like there's no way he wrote that at 17. He probably, you know, but no, he did. So he had a connection to crime scenes. He saw a lot of things as a kid. His son, who later on became a LAPD detective, never really thought of his dad as a suspect. It never even crossed his mind until his father passed away in 1999.
Speaker 2:Okay, so George died in 99.
Speaker 1:Yeah, george Hodel died in 1999.
Speaker 2:Steve is his son.
Speaker 1:Right. So you figure 99 at that time. He's what? Uh, 92 years old. Sure, you're right, that's a full life, bro. So the step-mom calls Steve over and says hey got some stuff from your father. You might want to look through it. And there's a picture book. He starts going through the picture book and there's pictures of him when he was a kid and his brothers and sister and all that. And he comes across a picture of a young girl kind of posing but like dressed, but like you know, maybe lingerie on. I don't know. He didn't really say he's like it looks familiar, provocative, that girl looks familiar. And he starts looking and he thinks about like the black dolly, like it looked kind of like the black Dahlia. And then he started looking at pictures of her. He's like I think this is her. He actually sent that picture to Germany to have it analyzed and it came back like a 97.8% match to the black Dahlia. So his dad in his mind at some point knew the black Dahlia.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Or Elizabeth Short had a. At some point knew the black dahlia okay. Or elizabeth short had a connection to her. As he started digging deeper he found a lot more stuff. Uh, let me see here personal letters, the handwriting samples with elizabeth short. He had letters from elizabeth short well, personal letters I guess, kind of uh, maybe saying like he was responsible or that he had something to do with it. There, were like the letters there was things in those letters.
Speaker 2:It was like a diary of sorts, but he was telling somebody something in a letter, got it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there was a handwriting samples that he had. That police had gotten letters Like you were referencing. They got hundreds of letters and different stuff from people, but some of the ones that they thought were okay, there's something here, because of some of the facts that are in here, I guess they kept this evidence and were on file and he was able to get a handwriting expert to match that to his father's handwriting Dang. So he was like, well, there's a match there, right, man?
Speaker 2:this guy's just trying to kill his old man's good name.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so there's two books that he wrote Black Dolly, avenger and Most Evil.
Speaker 1:These are like the two that you know have the most compelling facts in there that you would tie I feel, compelled yeah uh, one other thing that he, uh, he thinks not only does he think his dad was responsible for the black dahlia murder, but also he's trying to link him to be the zodiac killer. Damn, because, like we said this, whoever did this, whoever committed this murder, probably didn't stop there, right, right and uh. So he was trying to tie him to the Zodiac killer, which is going to come up later on, but some of the things that we're going to tie him to the body of Elizabeth Short in the crime scene photos there was bags from concrete and bags from a cow manure that were at the crime scene. Okay, in the crime scene photos they think that's how the body was moved, because it was in halves. So you, you figure.
Speaker 2:I gotcha. So they carried it in bags to make it non in, you know, indiscreet. It's like who's gonna ask, who's gonna look at some dude that's just carrying a bag of concrete.
Speaker 1:Right, right, right so they had uncovered receipts from him for three days earlier for that particular brand of concrete and that particular brand of fertilizer. Not only that, but that fertilizer, which is cow manure, had like a green tint to to it. There was a green substance in her stomach plus the excrement. Yeah. So they didn't know that back then. But however, many years later, having those receipts, she had poop in her belly. It was from that fertilizer.
Speaker 2:Dang.
Speaker 1:He probably fed her that fertilizer, which had a green color to it. Sure and he had receipts. He had purchased both of these things three days earlier.
Speaker 2:Because what have we learned what? What better idea is it than to for, especially for law enforcement, than to bring ink and paper into your crimes? That's a great idea. Yeah, Get receipts. Make sure you get receipts with the shit that you're going to kill people with. That's a good idea.
Speaker 1:There was a uh eyewitnesses that put a black sedan at the crime scene in and around the time of in between when the body was found. You know what I mean. I guess that evening, late evening before and to when the body was found, there was a black sedan his dad owned, like a 1939 black packard or something like that, so the car matched. Now there was another uh thing as like a military watch. Now the son brought that up and said well, there's a little bit of inconsistencies there, but it's a possibility. There was a black-faced military watch that was found on the crime scene or at the crime scene. His dad had one and was pictured wearing that for pictures taken up to that time.
Speaker 2:Damn.
Speaker 1:And then never wearing it again after that that time.
Speaker 2:So that's a little sketchy look man, all signs are pointing to george hodell also there was a murder.
Speaker 1:That was like a year earlier. The girl was a six-year-old. Her last name was uh degnan, okay, okay. Her body was severed in the same way. It was between the second and third vertebrae. It's the only place you can cut the body where you don't go through a bone okay and that six-year-old's uh last name was degnan. Right, it was a year earlier. Elizabeth short's body was left on a road that intersects with degnan or turns into degnan avenue. Wow, almost like a clue, like yeah like put it together, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So all those like there was a lot of and and just like we talked about the posing and the minotaur and the things that you're he's, he was using all these things to try to connect his father, maybe to say he enjoyed kind of giving clues because the guy's super intelligent sure maybe putting things out there to kind of lead you in a direction like oh, these are all connected. So was that six-year-old connected to the Elizabeth Short murder?
Speaker 2:It's the same. It's the same MO, it's the same result, it's the same everything. You're talking severing a body into two? Same spot, same way, same everything. Right, I mean just a year apart? I don't know, man. Look, I've heard of copycat murders. That is for sure a thing, but I don't know.
Speaker 1:And here's another thing. He was on trial or he was accused of murder before this. His secretary, ruth Spalding was her name, ended up dying from an overdose while he was with her. He was a physician, like I said, and he was actually. There was rumors he was doing illegal abortions and he was treating people for venereal diseases. He was in charge of that part of like. Basically, if you had a venereal disease back then, it was kind of like a shameful thing. Well, of course, obviously it is today.
Speaker 2:It's kind of a shameful thing today.
Speaker 1:Right. So these people would go to him and he would give them medicine but blackmail them like hey, I'm giving the medicine, but if you want to be hush hush, better give me a little bit more, and this and that. But he would also misdiagnose people, tell them they have you know, oh, you have this wrong with you, so that he could prescribe them or, like treat them for things that weren't wrong. I guess one of the women that he was treating he told her she had a disease or something. She went and got second opinions and they were like no, you don't. So she came back on him and was like hey, you were basically got got a hold of secretary's like hey, I think he's making stuff up. So I wonder what his motive for that would be. So the secretary got that and questioned him about it. Hey, are you? Uh, like I've been getting phone calls that like people are getting second opinions and blah, blah, blah. So I guess maybe he was worried about her outing him.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know what I mean right, so she ended up quote unquote overdosing and dying while he was with her mysteriously overdosing right and then all that paperwork, all this stuff that had in the office mysteriously, I think.
Speaker 1:I think it was caught on fire or disappeared or whatever, of course. So there was that going on with him before this. Yeah, so it's in him to do that for sure. They said he was sexually like a deviant stuff. He would do big orgies, all kinds of wild stuff.
Speaker 2:They just guy was into some wild stuff when you've got a mind like that, you know your mind just starts racing and wandering and I think you're just, you just have this grander need that goes, you know, unsatiated right.
Speaker 1:So the zodiac killer is something then later on his now. At that time his father would have been around 60. You think man, that's very old. He said his dad was 60 years old but looked like he was about 45, maybe 40 to 45 years old. He was in great shape. Obviously. He lived to be like 91, 92 years old. He took care of himself. A lot of the eyewitnesses of the Zodiac killer had him as a younger man, but there were other sketch uh, sketch artists and people eyewitnesses that had him as an older man in his 40s. His father definitely could have passed for someone in his 40s.
Speaker 2:You're saying wait, are you saying that this guy could have been the zodiac killer?
Speaker 1:his son's trying to time to it, because there was a french linguist that took some of the uh zodiac killer a cunning linguist yeah, cunning linguist and deciphered them and it spelled out hodell, some of these zodiac killer letters, that's bananas. You got to really like look into it on this, like look up uh, george hodell, zodiac killer, and you can see all the theories online. I mean, there was a lot of much like with the uh the black dahlia. There was, uh, there were some things that you could go down a rabbit hole and go. That's a possibility. It is crazy that that his son he's basically saying like his dad was a serial killer.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean. But again, I've I've mentioned that earlier. It's like this guy, this Steve Hodel, has making it. He's made it. It's his life's mission to besmirch his old man's name. Yeah, I don't know, that's kind of messed up.
Speaker 1:So you definitely want to look this guy up if you want to hear more about it. But there was ties to him being the Zodiac Killer, like I said, and then these other murders that were going on. There was a murder that happened three weeks later after the Black Dahlia Yep and we talked about, you know, people going in and saying I did it, I did it. You know well, one of the stories got into the paper. They said that they had we got the Black Dolly murder suspect in custody, it's, I forget the guy's name. He was like he was in the military and they put it out as a story, knowing it wasn't true, hoping that the real killer would come forward Like no, no, no.
Speaker 1:That's not how it happened, that the real killer would come forward like no, no, no, that's not how it happened, it's not him, right, right, it's me. Well, it actually kind of backfired because he didn't come forward. He went and committed another murder, which was three weeks later, and uh, yeah, yeah, that, that backfired.
Speaker 1:I'll show you right, I'll show you you don't have the right guy, god damn so the media, uh, put that out and then three weeks later our body was found and it was like gouged into the stomach, it was like F-U-B-D Okay. So they were saying it was like F-U-Black Dahlia. Black Dahlia right, basically saying like you know, I'm still out here. This guy's in custody. Guess what? There's another murder with similar. This girl wasn't cut in half, right. This girl wasn't cut in half but there was other similar markings on her, I guess.
Speaker 2:What if she got like the Shogun death, like the samurai death, where they stabbed themselves and they draw the knife to the right? Oh yes, if you haven't watched Shogun, give that a watch. It's good on Hulu. Well, it's on FX, but they run it on Hulu as well.
Speaker 1:I'll have to check that one out.
Speaker 2:So did we ever determine what the impetus could have possibly been for george hodell to give his patients like the wrong scripts, or the wrong drugs, the wrong whatever.
Speaker 1:Well, it's for money, like he would um, he would basically treat them for diseases they didn't have, or you know what I mean. Like it sounds like modern day medicine, exactly.
Speaker 2:I mean, look man, I remember my original family doctor, who's since retired and god bless him, I love him, uh, but man, he would, he was the quickest one to write you a script. I mean, um, for anything you name it, I'll give you a script.
Speaker 1:For that there's a drug for that. Here's a z-pack. Yeah, I got a little bit of cold, little sniffle z-pack something, anything, I mean man.
Speaker 2:You just lines of drug reps run, walking in and out of his practice I believe it.
Speaker 1:I mean that you know they make money off that for sure. Yeah, you know, and there's drug reps going and they're pushing their stuff, but he was doing it back then, um pushing that rock, pushing that rock and it was convenient that he was like sexually deviant orgies doing all this, sleeping around, I mean convenient for him yeah, and then he, that's the diseases and stuff he's treating he was like the expert on it. They said in that area like basically.
Speaker 1:He knew all there was to know about VD, vd and antibiotics and he could probably treat a girl if he wanted. You know, wanted to hook up with one. Oops, here's a prescription or whatever. But, yeah, crazy, I mean, I think the guy was definitely a suspect. Now here's another crazy thing to close it out.
Speaker 1:So this is recently, maybe 10, 12 years ago, I can't put an exact date on it, but, like modern times, the son took a guy out there with cadaver dogs, you know the ones that sniff around. So he went out there to the family residence where they grew up and had these dogs sniff around and stuff. Well, they picked like four different points on the property where these dogs were going nuts, like there might be bodies buried under this house or somewhere under the basement. Sure, um, he went to the authorities with it and they were like, basically, like we don't have time to dig that. That's, however, many years ago. If this is true, these bodies are from, like you know, 80 years ago 60 years ago whatever the time would be ago yeah, 60 years ago.
Speaker 1:They're dust and bones, man, right, bones. We're not gonna waste our time and whatever else like that. He also has his dad's full dna profile and he was offering it up like here I'm gonna give you the dna right.
Speaker 1:Run it through the old washer there right if you have any samples from anything like and they're like no, we just don't have time to put our resources towards that, like it's almost like they don't want to solve it, and it makes you wonder about that corruption and stuff now. Would anybody still be alive today that would have been involved in that?
Speaker 1:probably not probably not but maybe as a department or maybe as a organization, you don't want that tarnished record like oh you know we were doing x, y and z back in the day but it's just weird.
Speaker 2:lapd has had some really bad peaks and valleys in its longstanding career. Again, there's been corruption. Well, I mean, a lot of big city police departments have had it. But man, I just remember LAPD just happened.
Speaker 1:Every couple of decades something will go by, or I should say every couple of decades will go by, and then something bad happens in in la with the pd yeah, I mean like I like I support police and I, you know I'm not trying, it's all bad, of course you know we love the police you know, obviously our boy officer vince we got a lot of things we got other police officers that listen we fancy law enforcement, we abide we abide, for sure, but it just like for those people out there that are conspiracy theorists sure it raises red flags like, well, why don't you care, why don't you know? But there are a lot of other things going on that probably they need to put their resources to.
Speaker 2:They do I mean, look, there's a. There's a lot of modern day stuff that they can solve for living relatives and families and settlements and all kinds of stuff. Like I don't man an 80 year old cry might not be number one on their list. Did you come up with anything on Leslie Dillon the bellhop or Mark Hanson, the nightclub owner?
Speaker 1:No, neither one of those, like George Hodel was the one that I kind of focused on, I mean look, I'm not going to doubt that at all and I should say I I agree with that wholeheartedly.
Speaker 2:Like as, as I was going through some suspects, I just pulled out three that were remotely close, but that george hodell is. He's number one with the bullet as far as I'm concerned.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, yeah yeah, I mean that's pretty much all I had on, uh hodell, trying to think if I missed anything here. I mean I talked about the concrete bags, cow manure, those were like two of the major things, yeah, and uh, the watch which the watch? They really couldn't connect, but I mean those things alone, plus an eyewitness that they said saw a man fitness description with her the night before and then the car description so, and the guy had a history of that stuff. You know what I mean? The guy was just all around, I don't think a great guy now. He said, like with his dad, he likes to look at it as a Jekyll and Hyde type thing. Could be.
Speaker 1:He knew him, you know, as Dr Jekyll, like the nice guy, but he was doing shit. Maybe that he couldn't control urges and turned into Mr Hyde. But the Black Dahlia murder, I guess to this day is still unsolved.
Speaker 2:It is Damn it. I thought we were going to solve it today. I guess not they.
Speaker 1:I thought we were going to solve it today. I guess not. They had audio tapes of him talking about. These are excerpts they took from it. Well, even if I did the Black Dahlia murder, they can't prove it and things like that. These are like wiretaps, stuff like that.
Speaker 2:That's a great thing to say. Right why would you say that? Why would you get receipts for manure and concrete bags? Yeah, exactly. What are you going to do? Return it Right, not pay taxes. Itemize it. What are you going to do with receipts, man?
Speaker 1:Yeah, everything's just bizarre, Bizarre. But yeah, that was a good one man.
Speaker 2:No, this was your call, this was your recommendation and I'm really glad we walked this one through. I'm sorry Matt wasn't able to join us, but yeah, this was and remains I mean absolutely a compelling story, like a serious true crime that the legend lives on man.
Speaker 1:And even if it wasn't George Hodel, I think it was definitely somebody that committed more murders than one. There's just no way, or maybe it was more than one person.
Speaker 2:I would agree with that. Yeah, I definitely agree. Hey guys, can you wrap it up? Ooh, it's about that time. Yeah, her timing is right on today. I'm thankful Like she just gets better and better at that timing, she's just right on with it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but, zab, I think, like if any of the listeners out there, if there's any like unsolved crimes or any mysteries like that or any anything you'd like us to cover, reach out. Yeah, reach out social media. However you want to get a hold of us, let us know what you like us to cover. We're always looking for ideas. We try to come up with some on our own, but definitely if you tell us something you like us to cover, we'll look into it. Got anything else?
Speaker 2:No, dave, I got nothing. I guess that's it for now, so we'll catch you where On the flip side.
Speaker 1:If we don't see you sooner, we'll see you later. Peace.
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Speaker 1:You can find us at Old Dirty Basement on Facebook and Instagram and at Old Dirty Basement Podcast on TikTok. Peace, we outie 5,000.