Ol' Dirty Basement: True Crime and Vintage Movie Reviews
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Ol' Dirty Basement: True Crime and Vintage Movie Reviews
The Chilling Enigma of the West Mesa Bone Collector: Urban Crime, Lost Lives, and Albuquerque’s Shadows
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What if the city you thought you knew hid a dark, sinister secret? Join us as we unravel the chilling enigma of the West Mesa Bone Collector in Albuquerque, New Mexico. We'll spotlight the stark contrast between the city's vibrant cultural portrayal in shows like "Breaking Bad" and the grim reality of mass graves discovered during construction. This episode is a gripping journey through Albuquerque's underbelly, filled with personal stories, and fresh perspectives on the newly released movie "The Boneyard," which adds depth to Albuquerque's complex narrative.
We uncover the poignant tales of victims like Michelle Valdez, Jamie Barella, and Evelyn Salazar, whose involvement in drugs and prostitution delayed their recognition as missing persons. The painstaking process of identifying these women exposes the broader issues of urban crime and the transient lifestyles that complicate investigations. Our discussion also addresses the broader urban crime issues and the complexities of solving crimes involving transient populations, shedding light on the often-overlooked struggles of these communities.
Finally, we dive into the chilling story of Lorenzo Montoya and the disturbing evidence found in his trailer, exploring theories about other suspects like Fred Reynolds and Joseph Blea. We also question whether a vigilante killer could be targeting prostitutes, reflecting the community's frustration with law enforcement and ongoing efforts to keep the investigation alive. Join us for an intense exploration of the West Mesa mystery, set against the vibrant yet shadowy backdrop of Albuquerque. Don't miss the chance to explore this haunting episode, and remember to engage with us on social media for more updates and discussions.
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thanks for tuning in to the old dirty basement on this week's episode.
Speaker 2:We're covering the west mesa bone collector indeed a story of lost women and a relentless search for answers yeah, um, this is still maybe a mystery.
Speaker 3:Uh, it's happening in the 505 albuquerque, new mexico.
Speaker 1:Uh, hope you guys tune in and like it I thought albuquerque was all meth and rvs from that show, but I guess not, nope well, you're breaking bad on this one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right, it's not just for meth anymore.
Speaker 1:But we hope you're enjoying the podcast. If you are, leave that five-star rating on Apple. Leave us a written review and sit back, relax and enjoy the West Mesa Bone Collector.
Speaker 4:This is the old, dirty basement Home to debauchery, madness, murder and mayhem. A terror-filled train ride deep into the depths of the devil's den.
Speaker 1:With a little bit of humor history and copious consciousness.
Speaker 4:I'm your announcer, shallow Throat. Your hosts are Dave, matt and Zap. I love you, matthew McConaughey All right, all right, all right.
Speaker 1:Hey, this is Dave.
Speaker 3:Matt and Zap, and welcome to the old dirty basement.
Speaker 1:Where every week we cover a true crime murder or compelling story.
Speaker 3:So sit back, relax and comprehend. Hello, hello, hello everyone again. Welcome back to the old dirty basement. I am Matt. With me always is Dave and Zap. Good afternoon, morning, good morning evening.
Speaker 2:How are you guys doing? And good night that's right yeah, a little truman show that's what that's from. I knew that good afternoon, good evening and good night I like that movie.
Speaker 3:Do you guys like that? Oh, I think that's a great one truman show, yeah, yeah, it was good, just like caught in that little world and like what we're at I want one of those man yeah, I often think.
Speaker 1:Sometimes I'm in a movie. You look around, you're like this world for real, or you know what I mean that's usually late at night.
Speaker 3:A couple beers. You're sitting there looking like up in the sky. You're like what am I doing here? Is this real?
Speaker 1:I don't know I'd have some embarrassing moments. For sure, I want one on film, but but this one today, matt, you lived out this way.
Speaker 3:Yeah, for a little bit. I also have a lot of family. I was just there a few like last month in Albuquerque, new Mexico.
Speaker 2:Yeah, did you come across any bones while you were there? No, I did not. No.
Speaker 3:Some people are out there like there is a New Mexico. Never mind, that's from a show.
Speaker 2:That's right. There's a Mexico and then new mexico mexico yes, there is a new mexico new and improved.
Speaker 1:But, zap, you came up with this, so like, how did you come across it? Or what uh spurred this to?
Speaker 2:so I mean, it was really simple. The to the extent of I know that in the past I've tried to go for non-murdering crimes, that is just, or compelling stories, like I look for financial crimes or thefts or fraud or you name it you just want to get straight to the killing?
Speaker 2:yeah, well, you know, it's I wanted to break it up and, you know, change it up for myself a little bit. So I wanted to find a yet to be solved, as I I shudder when I hear the term unsolved. So a yet to be solved, whoa, whoa whoa why is that?
Speaker 3:no, I don't know if we're jumping like too far ahead or I don't know Well.
Speaker 2:I mean well. So I mean today we're talking about the West Mesa Bone Collector, that's right, and this is a I don't know man. I was looking to answer Dave's question. I was looking for something that remains to this day compelling, and hell, why not let's throw in some, uh, some, some mass death, and we we see where we go from there.
Speaker 1:Compelling enough that I guess they made a movie that's coming out or might be out now. Uh, 50 cent called the boneyard. Yeah, mel Gibson's in it.
Speaker 2:Oh, Matt before, yeah, before you got here, matt, dave was telling me about that too, I had Denzel Washington.
Speaker 1:Well, I asked that as well and I guess they're not.
Speaker 2:It's not the same, not even close, it's not even close.
Speaker 1:I guess it's not connected to this.
Speaker 3:I thought maybe it was, but I did too, like I was all excited I watched that, like I watched the whole movie. I was like, yeah, I'm ready for this podcast.
Speaker 2:But I was like damn Dude, I watched Training Day, so yeah, today dog wasn't in that right, no, no, just the olympics, I'm sorry. Well, no, snoop, dog was in what's the movie? He was in car wash, nope, well, he was in that he sold soul plane nope he played a washed up former football player and now he's a coach oh, the coach.
Speaker 3:Yes, I did see that he's a coach I don't know that one.
Speaker 2:I believe it's.
Speaker 3:In that movie we hear the classic bitch ass hoe, ass bitch oh no, he, uh, he's like out of jail and he's, he becomes a coach of like this lady's uh, she wanted somebody, like her son needed a team, and then he brings in like these cool uniforms. He's like yo bitch, look at the uniform like little giants yeah, it's little giants, but with snoop dog, yeah, it's fantastic well, there's no snoop in the West Mesa section of Albuquerque?
Speaker 2:No, not to my knowledge.
Speaker 3:So, yes, yeah, Representing the 505, what they say there and the Q, albuquerque.
Speaker 1:Albuquerque means, do you know, in Spanish.
Speaker 3:Awesome City. The Duke City is Albuquerque. I know that Is that you know.
Speaker 4:No, albuquerque, I know that is that you know no, I don't speak that language, I got no idea, white oak, white oak yeah, albuquerque, you know that yeah now you know, thank you, wow. If you don't know, now you know yeah all right.
Speaker 2:West mesa bone collector. On february 2nd 2009, christina ross was walking her dog along the West Mesa section of Albuquerque, new Mexico, in an area intended for new housing development. While rummaging through the loosened ground, her dog unearthed what appeared to be a human bone. Upon the arrival of local authorities, a single bone discovery soon turned into one of the largest crime scenes in US history. Over the next several months, police uncovered the skeletal remains of 11 women and a fetus buried in shallow graves across the 92-acre construction site.
Speaker 1:Wow. So I heard a stat that like 92 acres is equivalent to like 70 football fields that sounds right. That's a lot of football yeah, that's a lot of ground to cover.
Speaker 3:That's a lot of ground, fortunately, I'm guessing it's all flat matt no, I just uh, yeah, um, I watched the thing on this on youtube and they showed it was like a fence there. You know how they have when they're doing new construction. They have like. So the lady was walking her dog, uh, they're going through there, and she found like the dog was digging in the ground and pulled up this bone and it was a. Do you know what a arroyo is you guys ever hear that?
Speaker 3:no, arroyo an ego montoya no no, there's a montoya in this, isn't it probably probably yeah, there is yes, yes, prepared to die, all right but an arroyo is um in new mexico. It's very flat so they dig these trenches kind of where the if there's like a flash flood, a lot of like water coming down, that the water can run through like a retaining pond yes, yes and it can run through nice and even and go like down through the mountains and out without causing any like problems on the roadways and things like that avoids flash flooding.
Speaker 3:Yes, yes, so this was an area that they kind of like. The area that they were walking through was kind of where they want to put the arroyo, so it was. It was kind of like a lot of the rains were already going through there. So the lady was walking her dog. The dog was like digging around, picks up this bone here and, uh, she called her sister when she found it, who was a registered nurse yeah, she texted her.
Speaker 3:Yes, yeah, and she was like wait a second, that's. That's not like a dead animal, that's that's something weird. That's a femur bone that's human yeah, dude, that reminds me hold on a second let me check that that's dude, that's so funny.
Speaker 2:We've seen this, I'm sure, countless times in movies, right where I and they're typically comedic effects where somebody has their dog and the dog runs away and the dog come backs, comes back with like somebody's arm or somebody's hand, oh, dom. Or put that down something like that.
Speaker 3:I know the burbs. I think they had that right yeah yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:Uh, what? What was this? This reminds me of uh, matt, you remember.
Speaker 3:Uh, obviously you remember shane yes, dainey p, shaney p, shane dave was uh a grade below us at mcdevitt.
Speaker 2:I know shane. Yep, obviously you remember Shane. Yes, dave, shaney P, shaney P Shane. Dave was a a grade below us at.
Speaker 1:McDevitt, I know.
Speaker 2:Shane, yep. So Shane and I at one point we're eating Chinese food. Dude pulls out a bone out of his, out of his thing, and we. So there was always or has always been the you know, the urban legend or whatever, that they're throwing cats in there, yes, instead of like chicken. So he had to break the bone, just to, you know, convince himself. He broke the bone to make sure that it was hollow. He said, yep, that's a bird chicken bone, yeah wow, that would be scary.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I would have stopped eating at that point do you remember um, there was in middletown, kind of uh, where I grew up, not far from where zap grew up, there was the james way plaza. Oh my god love james way. Do you remember when they busted the chinese joint there and they found like um bunny traps in the back?
Speaker 2:oh yeah, yeah, absolutely no way you can absolutely substitute rabbit for chicken all day all day long but back to this area, matt's talking about where they discovered the bones.
Speaker 1:So if you remember around, you know, know, 2008, 2009,. The housing crisis, everything kind of stopped. They weren't selling property, so they were developing these houses like crazy. Now, matt, you lived out there, so I'm sure you saw some growth when you were there in. Albuquerque. But these they stopped building the land, you know, wasn't really as disturbed anymore and like he was talking about that rainwater and different things 's what kind of happened. So that housing crisis kind of helped because they would have just built right over these, so 100.
Speaker 2:so the construction on this, while planned and while well underway, it just stopped, like it halted that by february 2009, nobody was buying houses or or building houses, let alone interest rate or not interest rates, just the volatility in the market. Let alone being able to find funding, being able to get mortgages, insured mortgages, you name it, it just wasn't there and people were scared shitless as to what was going to happen with the value of real estate.
Speaker 1:But at that time, like Matt, you lived out there what like mid 90s, yeah. So I was looking at like population Like 95, 90, 96, 95. So they were saying like that area, albuquerque metro area, was like about a half a million maybe when you were there and now it's closer to a million now.
Speaker 3:So well, no, it's um. The whole area is like it's beautiful out there, like you look up and you see the mountains and everything. But where they were developing in that West Mesa like right now it is, it is all grown. Where they were developing in that West Mesa, like right now, it is all grown, developed.
Speaker 1:It's a beautiful area. There's people saying there's a lot of these bodies they didn't find are probably houses built over them, Sure 100%.
Speaker 2:Well, we encountered the same thing in Joey Miller.
Speaker 1:Joey Miller.
Speaker 2:They were building that development on the whatever side western eastern side of Steelton, and yeah, they're unearthing all of these bones as they're building these houses. They found his playground. It was amazing, it's it's true, though I mean this. This story here is the just the perfect storm where loosening up the ground. Matt mentioned the arroyo. Oh boy, oh, oh boy, oh, the ar boy, oh, and water erosion.
Speaker 3:Loose dirt, that's the word. Yeah, you wrote yeah, it was just eroding certain areas.
Speaker 2:Out comes the bones, all right. Well, the painstaking task of identifying the victims began. The investigatory team worked tirelessly to match dental records and personal items found at the scene to missing persons reports. One by one, the investigators identified the women Michelle Valdez, who was four months pregnant at the time of her death. Jamie Barella, who disappeared at age 15 alongside her 24-year-old cousin, evelyn Salazar. That's Jamie Barella's 24-year-old cousin, evelyn Salazar. That's Jamie Barella's 24-year-old cousin. Veronica Romero, a mother of two, who'd been missing since 2004. Monica Candelaria, who disappeared in 2003. Doreen Marquez, remembered for her outgoing personality. Julie Nieto, who'd last been seen in 2004. Victoria Chavez, who vanished in 2003. Virginia Cloven, a young woman remembered for her artistic talents. Cinnamon Elks, a known prostitute.
Speaker 3:With a name like cinnamon, cinnamon sugar baby. Mom got her ready with that name from birth I think it was a nickname, though, or I don't know it says cinnamon dude I've met hooker I I've I've met right there.
Speaker 2:I'm serious dude I I know, I'm sorry to god, I met a hooker, or hooker what?
Speaker 1:I'm at a hooker too. Lady of the night well, she dances a back alley sally she has her name was cinnamon real name, the stage name, a stage name.
Speaker 3:I don't know. Like it, when you know you're doing the write-up, you're looking for names. If they put cinnamon elks, I mean I'm sure that was her name yeah they could have put like mary cinnamon true true, so it's probably, yeah, it's probably her birthday, cinnamon it is hey man I like me, some cinnamon I've since I've seen stranger names and finally solania edwards, a runaway from oklahoma and the only non-hispanic victim. Uh, she was black, yeah I think she was 15 too right, yeah, she.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she was the youngest one, dang. 10 out of 11 of the women were Hispanic, and all were involved in drugs or prostitution or both, which contributed to the delay in noticing their disappearances. Their disappearances spanned from 2001 to 2005, painting a grim picture of a serial killer who operated undetected for years.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and what they? I think early on they weren't even like acknowledging that it was a serial killer. They were like oh, we don't, you know, we don't know that this and that. And then they were saying, well, he's definitely not active, if there is one, because of the the timing, the timing and stuff, because you know they found the bones in 2009 and they were.
Speaker 2:They were there for so long. These people are disappearing in 2003 and 2004 and shit.
Speaker 1:So they were basically saying there'd be fresh bodies here if it was active.
Speaker 3:And there wasn't anything fresh and it was also the families were taking like years to report, because these people never really talk to family, you know what I mean? Right, because they were. They were very involved in drugs, uh, prostitution, and it's one of those things that a lot of times the authorities don't have time for.
Speaker 1:they're like okay, yeah, we'll look into it now you lived out there, was that like a big thing out there, possibly like did you just see it everywhere?
Speaker 3:or not really I mean it's, it's kind of like any city.
Speaker 2:I got to agree with Matt on that one. Dude, there's prostitution and drugs everywhere.
Speaker 3:Right it just depends what part of the city that you're used to or what part of True.
Speaker 1:I mean, I never lived in a city, but I heard.
Speaker 2:Hell, you didn't live in a city.
Speaker 1:What are you talking about? You grew up in a city, but not like this.
Speaker 3:He didn't live in the city, I think I. I know I know what dave's trying to say.
Speaker 1:He's saying like a big city type atmosphere, yeah, but albuquerque I think is smaller than harrisburg, or maybe no, no, it can't be bigger. But they, they threw out a, they threw out a number. Like the one investigator said, at any given point, like for like a couple blocks, there might be 30 street workers out.
Speaker 3:Well, like working uh yeah, the university of new mexico is kind of like going central, which central is where they have a lot of um like drug addicts kind of like. The train station is up like north central right and um, I think there is prostitution. There is, but it's like if you go looking for it you can find it well, you know what I mean, what I'm trying to get around to.
Speaker 2:Let's just say look man, if I can find a chick named cinnamon right which I did, and I wasn't even looking, you can find prostitution.
Speaker 3:How much was the lap dance? Then I know you met cinnamon, I met.
Speaker 2:I met cinnamon actually. So uh the the story on that one she was. She was actually at a bar with a, an associate of mine.
Speaker 1:I don't want to call him a friend of mine, he's acquaintance an acquaintance of mine and I asked him like, dude, you know that that's like. Uh, he's like yeah, dude, I know what she does and I'm cool with that.
Speaker 2:I thought maybe you did her taxes or something look man, how much for these taxes well, look let's, let's work something out. It's an all, it's an all cash biz.
Speaker 3:So uh is that cinnamon with the C? No, that's an S.
Speaker 4:Would, that be a hard one to do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Well, yeah exactly no, but like you know what I'm saying, it could get confusing, I guess. No, okay.
Speaker 3:All right, I jumped off track. Where were you at with this? So what I was?
Speaker 1:getting back to, is all right that there's so many prostitutes that when they go missing that maybe it's not like, say in harrisburg there's maybe I don't know, I'm just throwing a number out. There say there's maybe 10 active prostitutes in a given you know, in the city area of harrisburg. One or two goes missing is like holy shit where they at. But if there's so many working, the way they kind of made it sound was that it's so rampant there yeah not not to say that they even go missing someone.
Speaker 1:They may. Oh, they moved to the next town or they moved to the next city, that they kind of go without people noticing.
Speaker 3:But I think that's any prostitute, like somebody that's so addicted to drugs and in the prostitution. I don't think they have somebody monitoring, do you know? I mean, there might be a cop on the beat that sees her every so often. Then she, he doesn't see her, or she doesn't see her for a while and they're like oh, I guess they moved. Like you said, they moved on.
Speaker 2:We've talked about this in other podcasts a few times and this is it could be prostitution, it could be bums, it could be drug addicts, it could be whatever. So these people live a very transient lifestyle. They're going to move on, like they'll pop into a city and then, after they've gotten all of the dick they want from there, they'll just move on to the next one. It's just that. And so there's also a seedy underworld associated with this, and by underworld I mean just that, the, the underbelly, or there's just that. That. That life's that that click of people Like, if you have industry people, they are, they're, they're going to stick together.
Speaker 2:That's just what they do, right, think of, um, what's that, goddamn from hell, that Johnny Jack the Ripper? So all of those chicks hung out together like they're just looking out for one another. Same thing is going to happen, but at the same time, these people either ran away from home, didn't give a shit about being home, whatever reason, they just left home and they went out and did their own thing, and in this case it was prostitution or drugs, and OK. But I'm starting my own new life here on my own, prostituting and drugging it. Nobody knows who the hell I am.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I think, the authorities. It's one of those things where you don't really try to keep up with this. Every once in a while you might see that somebody's missing, but it's not something that you're going to. You know, hold the press Like let's work around this whole area.
Speaker 1:Is there a lot of crime down there otherwise?
Speaker 3:In Albuquerque. Yeah, that's pretty bad. Now it's pretty rough. Yeah, it's pretty rough.
Speaker 1:Really yeah, they're probably already preoccupied.
Speaker 3:Yeah, there's a lot of other stuff going on Like think about you know border, you know control, things like that. Albuquerque is a hot spot for people moving up and through and out that.
Speaker 1:That gets to another theory that I heard about this the bodies.
Speaker 3:You talking about the pimp theory? No, we'll get to that.
Speaker 2:We'll get to that, I want to hear about that one, Matt, before I pull out my atlas. How close is Albuquerque?
Speaker 3:to the border. I mean you're talking like two and a half three hours, maybe four in some areas.
Speaker 2:But it's still the biggest city.
Speaker 3:It is Within that area if you get up into New Mexico, Albuquerque, Santa Fe are the bigger places to be.
Speaker 1:And the name's got to be attractive, like New Mexico.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're getting the fuck out of old Mexico to go to New Mexico. There's a New.
Speaker 3:Mexico.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a fun fact. It's not really Mexicans' concern. Really, you're looking for Chinese, you're looking for Chinese, you're looking for.
Speaker 1:Coming across the border. Yeah, you're looking for.
Speaker 2:Chinese. You're looking for people from the Saudi or the.
Speaker 4:I keep going back to, like Persia. Yeah, that's it, al-qaeda, I mean that's what you're looking for.
Speaker 2:You're looking for terrorists and you're looking at China. Yeah, anyways, the investigation was launched in full force but, due to the time elapsed since the victims had gone missing, crucial evidence had degraded or was destroyed. The lack of evidence created a challenge for detectives to construct a timeline or establish leads. Many of the identified women were part of Albuquerque's underground scene, dealing with issues like addiction and having sex for money, adding layers of complexity to the investigation, consulting with the victims' families and friends. Police left no stone unturned in hopes of unearthing information about the victims' last known whereabouts and trying to connect the victim's lifestyles to potential suspects. This kind of like this basically gets into, uh, what we were talking about before, where it's like look man, there's a lot of dead people around here. People die all the time, but at least I know what address, you know where they live someplace to start this is just holy shit.
Speaker 2:Here are five-year-old, six, six year old bones of these dead people. I don't know what they are, but OK, now I've discovered that, you know, based on DNA or based on dental records. Ok, it's this hooker. It's that hooker. It's this drug addict, it's that drug addict who knows where they came from. This has got to be tough man, really tough.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so one of the theories, because I know we have. You have names of some suspects at the end four or five main ones or four something like that.
Speaker 1:I don't know exactly how many he has here at the end, but I know there was talk of cartel using these girls as like runners, drug runners sure and uh, basically once you're done with them. Yeah, you know, dispose.
Speaker 2:So that was one of the theories I mean, I don't think that's how you get rid of that's, yeah, that's how you keep secrets.
Speaker 1:Right and I don't know, you know, if that holds much weight or if that was just like a theory.
Speaker 2:That's not a bad theory.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I'm just saying like, also like pimps, or maybe there's guys with a lot of money that are into the death type thing. So there, might be a group where he's like you know, hey, take, you know this lady tonight. And then when they kill her they're like, oh, we got a place for it, don't worry about it, but it's going to cost you.
Speaker 2:Oh, I see, Matt, I got it, I got it. You have a pimp that will cater to customers who are into like the rough stuff the bonded stuff.
Speaker 3:The bonded stuff, maybe even the killing stuff. Yes, and maybe something got out of hand, or but I like that though.
Speaker 2:It's cool, man, do what you got to do. It'll just cost you a little extra.
Speaker 3:It'll just cost you a little extra and then afterwards like we got something to cover it up, but it's going to cost you Yep.
Speaker 1:It'll cost you a coin. You just never know, man, they're sick people, yep.
Speaker 3:See what money time effort are you putting into these women like, say, it was, um, hookers and drug addicts, yes, so say it was some lady that was, uh, you know, she worked at, you know downtown and she had four kids and she was involved in the pto and this, and that I'm sure there would have been a investigation launched. Oh, absolutely, these are ones that are just like you know, hey, a dead hooker. No, what are you laughing?
Speaker 2:at, I'm sorry, as soon as Matt throws in books. She was into this and that and the other thing and the PTO.
Speaker 4:I mean shit.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean. She got cut out of an.
Speaker 3:APB.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 3:Oh shit, no, I know what you mean. Or my kid goes to school with we need to it would have been community outrage. Yes, they would ramped up the whole thing. Like when they say investigation, they're not putting their, their budget into, into finding out about this crime. Right, right.
Speaker 1:Like I said, I mean I don't know. That's why I asked about other things going on, because I'm sure I mean I did hear that about Albuquerque that it's kind of rough dealing with other shit you know, I mean drugs and whatever.
Speaker 2:There's only so many resources to go around. Right, I mean they're look, it's like it or or not there's.
Speaker 3:There has to be some kind of level of importance that people are placing on things but it's also too like the homeless have have got pretty bad there in albuquerque, so it's one of them things, too, where it's like if you're finding dead homeless people, you're not, you know, getting your first lieutenant on, you know, or doing a four-hour autopsy to try to find out what happened no right, you know they're not putting their, their funds into things that happen every day there that's right.
Speaker 2:These are bums that put themselves in that place anyway. Look, they're gonna die it's gonna happen.
Speaker 3:It's going to happen.
Speaker 2:Well, despite no one being conclusively linked to the crime, a few individuals did emerge as potential suspects. Let's start with Lorenzo Montoya, known for his violent tendencies, history of preying on vulnerable women and proclivity for soliciting the services of women who have sex for money. He lived in a trailer park less than three miles from the location of the burial site. His past actions and proximity to where the remains were found made him the primary suspect. Sadly, Montoya was shot to death in 2006. Sadly, Well, sadly, that's how you can't blame it or you can't find out. So sadly, Montoya was shot to death in 2006 during an altercation with the boyfriend of a teenage prostitute whom he'd strangled to death in his trailer.
Speaker 1:So I have the backstory on this one, please, if you'd like to hear this guy is something. So this Montoya, like you said, lived in a trailer. He was online on a website like an escort website In 2006.
Speaker 2:Online on a website like an escort website in 2006, in 2006? Okay, back and forth messaging with this girl.
Speaker 3:This is an escort service for all the right reasons. Right, it's like to catch a predator type thing. No, it should have been like, hey, what are you doing here, lorenzo? I know, right if he would.
Speaker 1:Chris hansen. Well, yeah, so he's on there messaging back and forth with this girl who's 19. That same day he went to a department store I think it was like macy's or something bought a, a new comforter, a new blank, new, uh, a comforter and sheets and all this stuff. So he had some of this stuff that's going to come into the story later here. Got messaging with this girl about hooking up. She's like, okay, I'll come over tonight, and she rode over with her boyfriend in the car. The boyfriend parked like a mile up the road and she walked up to the trailer. It was supposed to be like a half hour. She was going well over an hour.
Speaker 3:I guess what a half hour for a sexy time, or is that what he paid for?
Speaker 1:that's what he paid for and I guess and the boyfriend was okay with that.
Speaker 3:That's why he was out there. Yeah, he's waiting on it he's.
Speaker 1:You know he's making money out of it, sure.
Speaker 3:Usually, when you're addicted to drugs and other things like that, the prostitution really doesn't come into a I mean you've heard of that right when guys are like, hey, go ahead, make money.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean. There's guys like that.
Speaker 2:I guess it exists. It definitely does. I'm sure none of us could relate to doing something like that, but yeah, I get it. I understand. I guess it exists.
Speaker 1:So after about an hour he goes walking up to the trailer because he's concerned the guy's walking out of the trailer so concerned. Yeah Well, he's concerned with her, I guess her safety. The guy's dragging the body out of the trailer wrapped up in that same comforter and sheets and all that.
Speaker 3:Why would you buy new ones for that though?
Speaker 1:I think I'd use my old ones. Maybe he did. Okay, I got you, I got you yeah he wanted to replace him right away Right.
Speaker 1:So he had taped her up in his blanket and sheets and was dragging her out to the car and the boyfriend confronted him what are you doing? What's going on? And he I think he pulled a gun and the boyfriend pulled a gun, and the boyfriend shot him and killed him and that's how he died. How he died. I am lorenzo mentoya. So when they go, you kill the hooker, prepare to die. When they go into this guy's trailer, then, and start digging around, they find all these tapes, videotapes, and you can go online and find a tape did you?
Speaker 3:yeah? Yeah, they had the one. Um, it was only a certain little section of it though, yeah, but they were looking for the woman, right or?
Speaker 1:well, they had ones with prostitutes on these videos, but none that were the dead bodies, right. But they did have one where the cameras turned towards the wall and they said, they heard like what duct tape, duct tape and stuff. You could hear them wrapping, yeah, wrapping it up god damn it.
Speaker 2:That was one of my fun facts. Oh, go ahead. What is the oh no so fun fact? In fact, lorenza montoya, that primary suspect, uh, when raiding his house, his trailer, uh, detectives came across a recording of montoya's camera. Uh, when they searched his home recording on his camera. I'm sorry, that's the one, yep. So, according to police, the video shows montoya having sex with a woman, then fades to black, then transitions to show the bed, an empty bed, without, you know, without either of the two people there. Now, during the empty bed scene of the video, despite not being able to see anyone, one can hear montoya tearing duct tape from a roll, opening a garbage bag and saying tranquilo, somewhere off camera, which means calm down. Is that what that means? Yes, no, that's that clear you make margaritas out of that shit.
Speaker 3:I take two shots of tranquilo. That's no, that's that clear. You make margaritas out of that shit.
Speaker 2:I take two shots of Tranquilo.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 3:So that's creepy shit, man, yeah, but that's all circumstantial stuff, though you can't throw somebody in jail for that.
Speaker 2:That's fair. Look, I mean that's bad.
Speaker 3:You can't throw somebody in jail for some duct tape.
Speaker 1:He just murdered this girl, though.
Speaker 2:You know what tape? He just murdered this girl, though you know I'm saying he did murder, he did let. He definitely murdered this girl, this teenage prostitute, and he definitely was killed by that prostitute's boyfriend.
Speaker 1:There is no doubt about that and I don't think that's a crime where you're like I'm gonna do this shit tonight, like I'm just gonna go right into it, kill somebody, tape them up, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3:Like I think you graduate to that but I think that's saying maybe going back to where the burial site was, that could have been stuff like that, like the guy got out of hand what you know what I mean well, here's the other thing.
Speaker 1:You're online chatting back and forth, of course, so right there you're. Like you know, they say guys, get their guys. But uh, serial killers, people in general, guys you know how regular dudes are man? There's not very many women serial killers, but monster, I guess what's her name, but you're getting sloppy here at the end sure so maybe he was there on yeah, so maybe here at the end he's like.
Speaker 2:You know, I just want to get caught could be, you know, I don't know, could very well, I mean, that's no I think it just turned out bad.
Speaker 3:I don't think you knew the guy was right down the street. That was one of the things.
Speaker 1:And then but to be online like you're just you know they're gonna attract people.
Speaker 2:I we have that we have done this dozens of times.
Speaker 3:Some dudes drunk on drugs, they don't think about shit like that.
Speaker 2:That's right. Shit, that's a whole other thing too. But yeah look, man. Rule number one do not create a footprint for yourself, be it ink and paper, on receipts of an electronic footprint. If you're going to commit a crime, don't leave a footprint. You're a fool, you're an idiot, true.
Speaker 1:Three miles to. I think he lived like what was it three miles at? Three miles yep From the dump site. That's pretty damn close. That's close yeah.
Speaker 2:Was there something else about Lorenzo? There was the video, there was the thing.
Speaker 3:I just read about the video oh yeah, Thank you Dave.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he lived.
Speaker 1:Proximity, that's it three miles and I did mention that.
Speaker 2:That's right, that's right, that's right. And there were trails.
Speaker 1:On an island.
Speaker 4:So, you think this guy?
Speaker 1:could have been responsible I think he's a.
Speaker 2:He's absolutely a primary suspect. Primary suspect, yeah All right.
Speaker 3:I think Red Fox would say this guy sounds like a big dummy. He is a big dummy.
Speaker 2:We were talking about them earlier. Let's talk about pimps, shall we? Fred Reynolds was a pimp who had worked with many missing hookers in the area, including one of those whose remains had been discovered. Suspicions were raised when police discovered a sizable collection of photos he'd accumulated. Now these were photos of all of the prostitutes he'd ever encountered, either under his protection and service or otherwise. His proximity to the victim's circles and involvement in their lifestyles made him a person of interest, but, alas, reynolds died of natural causes in 2009 so that could have been the pimp matt's talking about, correct?
Speaker 1:you know you were saying about it.
Speaker 3:Set shit up well, yeah, but also with a pimp like that. It wasn't fred reynolds. If he was like a head pimp that was taking these bodies to that area and burying them. It would have been some guy that works for him, or it could have been a group of guys like I don't think it, I don't think it was one particular man who was a serial killer that was taking these bodies there to dump them. Could have been a team, like a group. I think that might have what like maybe sex traffickers, like a cartel yeah it just sounds, I don't know.
Speaker 3:It doesn't sound like a sec or a serial killer type I don't know what it doesn't sound like a serial killer type. I don't know, what do you guys think?
Speaker 1:I think it sounds much like our Joey Miller.
Speaker 2:Correct, as soon as I did this one this one smacked of Joey Miller, yeah, but like on a grander scale. I don't know how many.
Speaker 1:Miller kill. I forget Miller killer. Miller killer, what was it like? Three?
Speaker 2:It was less than a handful he miller killer, yeah, miller killer what was it like? Three, it was less than a handful.
Speaker 3:He didn't get to these numbers. But no, he was just starting though. Right, but if, if you have money in an area like you said, albuquerque is not the greatest area at that time, it's getting a little better right now. Um, there's still a lot of like homeless crime, mostly drugs, things like that. Uh, prostitution comes along with drugs, but for somebody to, I don't know, it seems like the area they just knew this was like a safe area, and for one guy to be just burying and dumping bodies like right there the whole time, I don't know this one, that this pimp, fred reynolds.
Speaker 2:This matches the your one theory of hey man, I've got a specialty practice here. If you're into beating the shit out of women while you're banging them and they might die, it's cool, I'll ditch the bodies. It'll just cost you a little extra.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and then they got those people under their thumb for the entirety. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Of course.
Speaker 3:Like hey, you want me to tell where we got the body. We know where the body's buried.
Speaker 2:We're going.
Speaker 4:You were with this woman, we have evidence.
Speaker 1:The guy's like oh, here, here, man, here's some more money, here's some more money, I don't know. Oh, I see what you're saying. Yeah, that's possible. Yeah, it's possible. The thing is, you get so many more people involved. You think something would have came out by now, you know well, that's the whole thing.
Speaker 3:Like somebody, somebody would have ratted if it was uh, I don't know it. This is.
Speaker 2:It's a tough story to to try to wrap your head around so tough. It remains yet to be solved. Yeah, and on to our third suspect, joseph blia. Now this guy. It wasn't until 2014 when he came across investigators radar. Still alive and well to this day. Blia has been dubbed the middle school rapist. You know what a name?
Speaker 3:to live with right hey is that blia.
Speaker 2:Yeah, middle school rapist you know, what a name to live with right hey, is that bleah?
Speaker 3:yeah, middle school rapist.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, he's a great guy when you see, like you know, people magazine, handsomest man on the planet, whatever, or person of the year on time magazine top, middle school racist rapist good old msr yeah msr man it's whoa joey bleah again that.
Speaker 2:So this guy this is, he's dubbed the middle school rapist because of his 2015. That's 2015 conviction for crimes he committed back in the 80s. Now, as the name would suggest, these crimes included breaking into the homes of a few girls between the ages of 13 and 15 and raping them, and 15 and raping them. When he was arrested for the rapes, years after their occurrence, underwear and jewelry that didn't belong to either his wife or his daughter were discovered in his home. Additionally, his DNA was found on items near the burial site. Detectives have found it difficult to definitively rule him out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, when you have trophies like that.
Speaker 2:Trophies. We've seen it these guys are idiots. Morons yeah, they won't get rid of that.
Speaker 1:Here's another one on this guy. This is pretty crazy. So the APD Albuquerque Police Department identified a plant tag a plant tag for a spearmint juniper. It's like a type of plant. It was found near Virginia Cloven's buried remains and it's a piece of evidence linked to Joseph for the murders. This tag was tracked back to a nursery in California and he worked for his business. He was like a landscaper. He had purchased these plants. So this is like a rare type plant, sure, and it's like a specialty plant.
Speaker 1:So, that tag was found near one of the bodies. So if he was like moving the bodies around in a truck maybe like a work truck, sure and one of them fell in with one of the bodies, so that's like a piece of evidence they're trying to link him to it.
Speaker 2:That seems like a stretch to me.
Speaker 3:It is, but at the same time Let me be this guy's lawyer.
Speaker 2:Right, I mean that's a serious stretch and not for nothing. I mean not to stereotype, but there's a lot of landscapers and a lot of whatever I get it, but Especially in New Mexico.
Speaker 1:I know, but if you're one of the only people in that area to buy that type of tree, right, you know what think of like, uh, like. I know a place around here that sells those bonsai trees, sure, so I don't know how many bonsai tree uh sales people that are around here.
Speaker 3:You know, I blame Mr Miyagi.
Speaker 1:Yeah you're right, so what I'm saying is if you're like the, the person in that area that sells that specific type of plant or tree or whatever, that's a red flag.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:What's the name?
Speaker 2:of killing it. What's the name of the? What's the name of the funny guy?
Speaker 1:he does podcast. Uh, old dirty basement.
Speaker 2:Yeah, dave, theo von, oh, theo von so theo von he just recently did a podcast or released one on with him and tommy lee oh for real. Yeah, that is a painful podcast to listen to, like it's not good. Tommy lee from motley crew tommy correct, he's fried, his brain is fucking fried.
Speaker 3:He's on a lot of drugs, still man like he.
Speaker 2:They said he was sober, but I don't believe it is a painful, painful podcast to listen to anyway. That notwithstanding, tommy lee mentioned that in recent years he'd gotten very much into bonsai trees oh wow, and like the the time it's involved in that and shit like that that. So yeah, man, I can dig what you're saying. Let's get the train back on the track here.
Speaker 1:That is a very, absolutely unique special item right enough that they were using it as a uh, a way to tie this guy sure, oh, it's, oh, it's like that thing.
Speaker 2:When we were doing it, we did another podcast. It was something about the only x number of people had purchased a particular stroller.
Speaker 1:Yes, that was the boy in the box.
Speaker 2:The boy in the box. So only so few, just a handful of people had purchased this specific stroller that they were able to find out who did it.
Speaker 3:Or I should say, narrow it down to a specific group of people. Yeah, yeah, yeah Huh.
Speaker 2:What kind of tree was that? A juniper.
Speaker 3:Spearmint juniper okay. So yeah, not many people are buying it. But that could have been just somebody thrown, or she could have been rolling around in the back of the truck with some guy and sure got a little spearmint juniper all over.
Speaker 2:Maybe she hitched a ride. Maybe she hitched a ride from california yeah, you don't know you.
Speaker 1:I mean, it's not nothing that would hold up in court Objection. Yeah exactly Sustained. So you're saying JW would not let his.
Speaker 3:No, no, no JW, that's easy money for the JW. This is circumstantial at best.
Speaker 2:He's laughing at this. Yes, he's laughing. This is circumcision at All right.
Speaker 3:But anyway, with, with, I don't know man Matt's got his thinking cap on. Yeah, I am. I'm just thinking like this guy's also into like the younger, the younger group.
Speaker 2:Oh, 100%, you know 100%.
Speaker 3:Once you start talking like 13, 15, when and the one lady was what? Like 32. Yeah, he's like no, I don't want that.
Speaker 2:No man that's old, she might fight back.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he don't want the fighters.
Speaker 1:So so far you're liking the first guy out of the two.
Speaker 3:Montoya. Yeah, I don't know. I think Fred Reynolds might have had a group. I think they you know he had some lackeys that would be like, hey, go get rid of this body, here's a couple extra dollars. They were all on drugs. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Like these guys are probably that that are think about people that be employed by a pimp. Right, you're not looking at, you know? And the intellectual types? Yeah, true, well, I mean, you're not wrong, matt. Look, I, I want to go off off. Uh, the the whole suspect list here. So we've got the one guy who was shot to death by because he'd already killed the dude's girlfriend. We got the pimp, fred reynolds, and then we got the middle school rapist I, I don't think it was any of them really. I think it could have been, in fact, just an other serial killer. Hell, he might have lived next door to the guy in the trailer park. It's just somebody who was into killing a Joey Miller of Jeffrey Dahmer, you name it. Just a mild mannered dude. You know what? Forget it I got. Here's a great example. I get squirrels in my backyard. They come in and they come at the bird food that, the bird feed that falls off of the feeder. I can't stand goddamn squirrels, so I shoot him.
Speaker 3:Right so this guy Serial squirrel killer. So maybe this guy or whomever- the killer is what he can't stand prostitutes that are on drugs.
Speaker 2:Maybe he was tired of seeing degenerates or whatever making his neighborhood look shitty.
Speaker 3:Like a modern day Superman. Superhero for the town, batman for prostitutes you all are just plagues of humanity here.
Speaker 2:You're terrible. You're a pestilence, out like a modern day, like superman yeah, superhero for the town, batman for prostitutes. You, you all are just plagues of humanity. Here. You're terrible, you're a pestilence, you're just awful. I don't want you around my property, I don't want you in my viewability, I don't want you in my area. I'm just going to pick you off one by one.
Speaker 3:The west shore squirrel collector go d no, maybe like did they find any, because, because they were mostly bones that were buried there for a while, they didn't know exactly what these women were killed from. Correct Well?
Speaker 1:that's the thing. So supposedly they're holding back. This is what I heard. A red ended here. Red Is that Could be both that they're holding back, maybe a little bit of info, just because they get so many calling because there's a hundred thousand dollar reward, um, for this.
Speaker 3:Like I said too, even there's guys in jail that are like oh, I did that I did. Yeah, that was me, that was me, I did that yeah so there's there, lucky, lucky.
Speaker 1:There's people that think that, uh, maybe they know the method and maybe it was unique. Now there was a prostitute on that lived on these streets and stuff that was spreading rumors before all these bodies were found that there was a crooked cop rumor has it exactly decapitating prostitutes and dumping their body in west mason sounds like a bad lieutenant.
Speaker 3:So now we got a crooked cop?
Speaker 2:yeah, maybe, okay, so there's another guy that that falls into the same similar category that I was talking about relative to a serial killer. Here's a cop that's ever, over and over and over again. I bust these prostitutes. They come in, they make bail and they go out, and then they're out again selling their bodies for money and where they come in again, and over and over and over. I'm just tired of this. I'm gonna start killing these bitches, right see, but with a cop, though I mean there's.
Speaker 3:There's too much to lose I would agree, but you know what I mean, especially about it's a.
Speaker 2:It's a vigilante cop.
Speaker 1:Who was the one? There was one guy we covered that was a cop for a short time, Correct.
Speaker 4:No, no, no, I'm sorry, the guy in Florida, gerard John Schaefer, was that who it?
Speaker 1:was.
Speaker 2:Yeah, or one of them.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:He would use that to his advantage.
Speaker 3:Like I'm a cop it. Any time you're opening your whatever your car door, there's stuff that alerts. I mean, there'd be so much videotape.
Speaker 1:I agree, I don't think that's the case.
Speaker 3:I don't think it would be a bad cop.
Speaker 1:No, that was just a rumor this one prostitute was doing, and it was all before all the bodies were found. So where did she hear that? You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but I'm saying for site like that. It just it sounds like zap said, maybe some guy was like a vigilante type, but or maybe it could have been. Just you know, the guy was with the prostitute. She's on drugs, she overdosed, they got to bury the body 11 times?
Speaker 2:yeah, 11 times. I don't know a lot of overdoses, man, look, that's it happens.
Speaker 3:or you could have. You could have dumped them, but it might. It might have led to like maybe the pimp or somebody oh, that's what's his name's lady, yep, and then it goes back to them, yep. I'll clean them up for a call. Yeah, just hey, let me just get rid of them. Don't worry about it, give me 25,000.
Speaker 1:I don't know, we forgot to. I don't know, maybe you did mention the one, yeah 100%, the first one, the first victim.
Speaker 2:They were able to piece together pardon the play on words, michelle Valdez.
Speaker 1:She was like four months pregnant. Yeah, she was four months pregnant, that's horrible.
Speaker 2:So at this time we don't know how these chicks died.
Speaker 1:Right, no, that's what.
Speaker 3:I mean, it could have been just an overdose, it could have been.
Speaker 2:Roofies or poison.
Speaker 3:Or the guy could have been um roofies or poison, or the guy the guy could have been like into like, like I said, that hardcore sex choked them out, they ended up dying. Or maybe he was into like bondage or you know what I mean, and then something bad happened, and then 11 times.
Speaker 2:But but I'm saying, these don't seem like high-end prostitutes either so if a guy does do that although with a name like cinnamon elks, all right, ow, yeah, it could have been cinnamon.
Speaker 1:You can't have too much cinnamon, though. If a guy does do that, although with a name like Cinnamon Elks Right Ow, yeah, it could have been Cinnamon.
Speaker 3:You can't have too much cinnamon, though, at once.
Speaker 1:I don't know.
Speaker 3:You choke?
Speaker 1:They do that cinnamon challenge. That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 3:yeah, you can't just take a whole bunch of cinnamon at once.
Speaker 2:Somebody did and somebody took her life.
Speaker 3:Poor Cinnamon.
Speaker 2:Subsequent to the discovery of the burial site, the community rallied, forming support groups expressing frustration and anger and alleging that law enforcement had not acted swiftly enough when the women initially disappeared. No too much money, who cares?
Speaker 3:that's what I'm saying. They're not we got bigger fish to fry.
Speaker 2:We're not going after hookers and drug addicts it's sad, but it's just the way that that it works. That's why you need a vigilante a batman batman for killing prostitutes I don't like you prostitute. They demanded justice and continued to pressure the authorities to find and prosecute the person responsible. Despite law enforcement doing their best, the killer was never identified.
Speaker 3:As david mentioned, in 2010, a reward of up to 100 000 was offered to anyone who could provide information leading to the arrest and conviction of the killer and that's where dave was saying that they were holding evidence back because if the guy who actually did do it, they would know for certain clues that they're holding back, to be like oh right, he does know something.
Speaker 1:You know. Know that you must know something.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you must know something.
Speaker 2:Well, to this day, the case remains yet to be solved and remains an active investigation. I say the person's- dead.
Speaker 3:Who did it? Maybe Because for $100,000, they would have called by now because they're addicted to drugs or into prostitution. They would have been like, hey, I know a guy. And they'd be like oh, what happened? Then he would have mentioned that clue and the guy's like it's this fuckhead. You know what I mean? True, this guy did it. Who's this fuckhead? Yeah, it's this guy Like how do you know all that? I don't know. I heard from my friend Joe.
Speaker 1:Like A life that ended in a tragic, lonely death. Yeah, I heard that there's one person now that works on this case. Like they had it at the peak I forget how many Like on their lunch hour.
Speaker 3:I see a guy with his feet up eating one of those tuna sandwiches that come in.
Speaker 1:It's like plastics 100% 100% no, but they said they're down to one person that kind of handles this.
Speaker 3:I guess like bob, you find anything out.
Speaker 1:No, not today bob, some people aren't like happy about that. Obviously they wanted to be, you know, but that's why they're uh like some of the families were pissed that that movie's coming out some people need to open their wallets and if they want investigations done, they gotta pay for it.
Speaker 1:But that movie that's coming out, they're hoping that it will spur more interest in this case and maybe get people to open up. But most of the people, most of the investigators, think that the the answers lie on the streets and these prostitutes don't want to talk no, because they'll be killed.
Speaker 3:They'll end up just like the rest of them.
Speaker 1:Well, not only that, but there's a lot of uh, a lot of them that won't talk because they'll implicate themselves, things and like, oh, I don't want to open up because I was involved or maybe they'll target me. So when you're involved in illegal activities like that, you feel like I can't say anything.
Speaker 2:But yeah, you gotta take. You've got to understand in this, you've got to take the good with the bad. You are absolutely participating in a seedy as hell lifestyle and I mean all of the seediness you could ever imagine, like people die. It's gonna happen. You can't go talking about it because, like you said that, you're gonna implicate yourself, you're gonna implicate your friends, you're gonna put everybody out there. Shit, yeah, now morally expose the underworld.
Speaker 1:Now, morally, I know I'm sure zap, you don't agree with prostitution or think it's it's a good thing. But, matt, I don't know where you're at on it, but she thinks I mean, should it be legalized legitimately?
Speaker 4:should people be?
Speaker 3:tested. Yes, what I'm getting around to is we're going to do it to be clear, I will.
Speaker 1:I will happily say that what's worth doing is worth doing for money so what I was going to ask you is like and maybe I'm, I don't want to say that you know, I know exactly what either you're going to say, but what would you think about legalized prostitution across the board?
Speaker 3:I don't see anything wrong with it being legalized. I mean they do it in Las Vegas, yes they do I don't see nothing wrong with a little cinnamon yeah, like I'm sure there'd be a lot of cinnamons if it was legalized, you would see that name.
Speaker 1:It is pretty much legalized to a point well, I mean it is, but like I mean I don't know how often officers pursue. I know they still do sting operations and stuff on, like certain and probably like, yeah, cities and stuff you just look at las vegas it's illegal. They have ranches, they have all that stuff. I wonder what the crime rates are.
Speaker 3:But didn't, didn't um, zap, like with the only fans thing, isn't it? It's basically open prostitution you don't mention the exchange of money. It's like I enjoy hanging out and partying. I'm whatever.
Speaker 2:Wait wait, wait. With only fans. Isn't that how that is? Or, from my understanding of only fans, it's almost like a bidding war. Like is that? Oh, I don't know, I think like, uh, like, oh, everybody's logged in and this chick is ready to take her shoes and socks off and she's gonna, you know, mess around with I don't Christmas balls with her feet or some shit, whatever the fuck they do on that goddamn thing. And so everybody's just bidding and bidding, and bidding.
Speaker 3:Okay, clock's ticking, clock's ticking but isn't, isn't there whoever gets the highest? Gets to see me do it can't she be like you know, I'm in this area for this weekend, and isn't it like uh, you know, if she's there, you can show up? Yeah, you can show up, or something like that? Isn't that the?
Speaker 1:only fans thing. I don't know how it works. I don't know if they're actually heard of it. Maybe they're. I don't think that they're hands-on, I think it's all like over the computer oh, hands-on.
Speaker 2:There's hand fetishes out there, oh, absolutely especially for salad bars and shit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, red barn, yeah, red barn, only fans, but I'll be salad bar dave, just to get.
Speaker 2:I definitely I'm gonna put out there my, my stance on the prostitution thing. Look, human beings are human beings. They're animals, we're all animals. People want to fuck. That that's what happens sometimes. If're ugly, you're not going to get a girl on your own volition. It's just not going to happen.
Speaker 3:There's beauty in everything.
Speaker 2:You got to pay for it. I get that. Look, I'm all for again. Whatever is worth doing is worth doing for money.
Speaker 3:If somebody wants to sell a product for money, I'm all for it.
Speaker 2:Somebody is an entrepreneur like that and wants to do that and take that risk, fine, go right ahead. Don't, however, don't look to me to pay for it when you get beat the fuck up. Don't look to me to pay for your health care when you get every other goddamn disease in the world or whatever the hell gets spread around anymore. All of that, don't ask me, don't ask the taxpayers, don't ask anybody else to help you along, because you chose to do this lifestyle. So enter at your own risk. But sure, in that regard, go for it. Legalize would be okay. I would say, go for it Again with the absolute understanding. Look, man, you're doing this at your own risk, we're not going to help you out.
Speaker 1:if you're getting into this, matt, what do you?
Speaker 3:think legalize it and help pave the roads, that's, the roads are pretty rough.
Speaker 1:I mean, that's kind of how I think the money would go you know what I'm saying? It's kind of like gambling like people finally came around on gambling and it's like sure, now it's everywhere. You can do it on your phone.
Speaker 3:You do it everywhere, so I mean like zap said, people are going to do it anyway if you legalized it, and then things like this probably wouldn't happen as much, because there would be there's records.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:There's records of everything. When you start getting to like this point there's no records Put the needle on the record.
Speaker 1:You know I was thinking about coming up with an app for these prostitutes.
Speaker 3:What do you mean?
Speaker 1:So basically, when they get picked up, you snap a selfie with the dude and send it to a database Like an Uber thing. Go ahead, dick, send it to a database like an uber thing. Go ahead, yeah, go ahead, dickhead, try something, because you're in the database now and if I go missing we're gonna find out.
Speaker 3:So and so you know what I mean? Well, that's, that's the whole good point of legalization. Now the women are afraid because they're like oh shit, I'm gonna get busted again. Then I got you know that, and these women mostly had kids, like some had two.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they were moms, that pick is not a bad idea and you know that's smart, that's smart it, it actually could go both ways, to the extent of it's a benefit to the customer as well, and I will explain that. So years ago, many years ago, hawk, who has been on this show, yeah, for an appetite for destruction review.
Speaker 2:Uh, hawk and doc. Hawk and doc weekend and I the three of us went out out to Las Vegas for a short little bachelor weekend. Hawk and Doc weekend, that's right. I had a Hawk and Doc weekend out in Vegas for this is right before Hawk got married. And while we're out there hey look man, it's bachelor stuff, we're in our 20s at the time. Who cares, go to strip club, have fun. So in Las Vegas you got guys on the street constantly Handing you stuff, handing these cards.
Speaker 3:Here's these cards.
Speaker 2:It's like you're collecting baseball cards or whatever. They're giving out all these cards to call this number to get this prostitute and on every card there's a picture of a sexy woman that's to entice you to call that number. So, after walking around and you just walk up and down the strip're gonna come back with like a hundred cards. Right, if you accept their offer. Here's a card they're walking by. So yeah, this one looks good. I'm gonna call this phone number just so. So this chick shows up.
Speaker 2:Doesn't look a goddamn thing not a bit like the thing on the card speaks no english. He kicked her the fuck out. Oh yeah, for real. This is. He kicked her the fuck out. Oh yeah, for real. This is false advertising.
Speaker 1:Get the fuck out of here. Well, it's like them McDonald's commercials. They show that burger looks all you know what I mean. You go get it. It doesn't look like that.
Speaker 2:Not a bit. That's all fake.
Speaker 3:It's funny. My uncle used to say that Like we go to or McDonald's and he'd be like I want a Big Mac, but he's like see that picture up there. I want it to look just like that and the guy's like yeah, yeah, we got you sir, we got to do Falling Down.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's a good movie.
Speaker 2:yeah, I mean, that was one of his pet peeves in that show.
Speaker 1:Who was?
Speaker 4:that Michael Douglas.
Speaker 3:Yeah that is a good movie. So when the lady showed up, she was like yes, I don't want to do a sexy time with you I'm here for this sexy time yeah, wait, you don't even you spoke english in this picture yeah, you know what I'm talking about.
Speaker 4:You spoke english. In this picture. You guys get exactly what I'm talking about like you know this this picture is english speaking.
Speaker 3:Where did you go?
Speaker 2:there's some this is a pictures of a blonde, white woman and you got hair on your belly. What happened? No, this hair, sexy time here. You got hair on your belly. What happened? No, this hair, sexy time hair. You got a merkin on your gut, Right?
Speaker 1:That's a wild story, but that just goes to show like I was talking about Vegas. That shit's all legal out there, Sure Like it's just like it's money, man, Like ordering a sandwich.
Speaker 2:But that's the picture thing that goes back and forth Like here's the picture you sent, fuck off.
Speaker 3:So I'm sure now it's all app beast could be. Yeah, I would imagine. I want a refund, yeah, but but just like this, when you think about the money that's in vegas with with hookers and prostitution, I'm sure there's that whole like what you were saying, that seedy underbelly, where if people are into like, like bondage or something that might end up in death, they have ways to get rid of it for you when you have money yeah, yeah, that's a small market.
Speaker 1:I'm sure that uh like I don't think what you think, man I'm talking about just the standard sex, and that's probably the majority of the majority.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but there's also like people that have a shit ton of money that would be into something different. I guess all they have is sex. You're right. You're right, I don't think about that, because these people that are doing shit.
Speaker 1:Ton of money that would be into something different. I guess all they have is sex. You're right. You're right. I don't think about that, because these people that are doing this shit, that are probably involved in that, that's not going to feed their urge.
Speaker 3:This is a guy that has 30 bucks that he got and is already high on crack. That wants to just bang it out.
Speaker 2:You know True. Can you have sex when you're on?
Speaker 3:crack. I don't. No, I never have hey guys, can you?
Speaker 2:wrap it up. Oh, did she ever hear us talking about whores and crap? I think so. I think she heard us sex.
Speaker 1:She's like. Enough of that Talking about prostitution and legalizing. Oh my God, my God, my.
Speaker 2:God. So what do you guys think? Where are we at here? How do we solve this crime? What can we do to help the fine people of West Mesa, New Mexico?
Speaker 1:I think just talking about it and like getting out like that movie is going to, it'll keep it in people's minds and realize that like somebody's got to speak up, I'm sure somebody saw something. Sure that's not coming forward. Like you just don't find 11 bodies and nobody knows how they got there. Somebody knows something, I would imagine.
Speaker 3:I believe it's a cartel. I believe it's more than one person involved. Whoever the main person is is either dead or not even in New Mexico anymore. He's probably somewhere in California or another large city. Maybe he's living in New York, some penthouse, who knows? I can believe the cartel theory.
Speaker 2:I can absolutely believe the cartel. That's what it sounds like Human trafficking. You've done your duty, peace out.
Speaker 3:Or they've brought drugs back and forth, or the girl knows too much, or she's just so freaking high that they can't do anything with her. They just knock her off a barrier. She's so high she doesn't even know it. She doesn't even know.
Speaker 1:This Montoya too. Like I said about him not being the first time, just because the crime was kind of planned out, he went and purchased and he knew what he was going to do. He had been arrested in 1999 of sexual assault on a 23 year old. So the girl told police that he put her hands, his hands, around her throat and choked her before detectives intervened. I think it was. I think it might've been. I don't know if it was like a sting operation or what Like. He was into that choking out and doing that Sure when the bodies were found, to where he lived. The fact that he's into that picking up prostitutes, choking them out, murdering them makes me think that the guy had to be involved in something. Obviously he was. So I just think it's kind of odd that he lives so close and they're all now. That other guy, like you said, were younger girls that he was into. This guy was just in the prostitutes and choking them out.
Speaker 2:So I mean, it's, the only thing that gets me there is that there's 11 of them. Like I gotta believe. I just gotta believe that by the time you get to maybe the second or third, the, the, the CD underground, that the, the cause, they all talk.
Speaker 1:You know they're talking to themselves like stay away from that guy stay away from this guy because he gets he had this hooker, that hooker and this other whore and we haven't seen him since there were satellite images too of that area, which now, because they actually built over that area, well, there's a park there now, sure, um that, they went back and looked at satellite images over time and you can see tire tracks and like the, the disturbed grounds where they were like digging and but like were there guys out there with shovels, with like the headlights, when it had to have been that?
Speaker 3:well, they were probably doing it at night, like that's what I'm saying shovels, headlights but but what I'm saying is I think it could have been these guys that are already high getting these prostitutes that are high that don't even know it. Yeah then then they get out of of control. Like you said, the guys are choking out. They end up oh shit, I killed her. Who do I call? They? Call the guy back. They'll probably end up dead too. They probably buried these guys who killed them somewhere too.
Speaker 2:They're so dead they don't even know it. We got to wrap this up here before Mrs Dave comes down here and kicks our ass. That's a good movie, oh, but before we go, I just now remembered they found more bones there, by the way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's like, uh like six more bodies or something like that.
Speaker 2:But these were some ancient bones.
Speaker 3:I'm talking like Navajo Indians, correct, correct, like indigenous people.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that's wild.
Speaker 1:That kind of throws a weird little wrench into the bone into the mix, oh, but uh, yeah, that was a good one zap, and uh, yes, thank you yeah, I appreciate you bringing that one up and I appreciate you yeah and matt, I appreciate you for sure.
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