Ol' Dirty Basement: True Crime and Vintage Movie Reviews
Join Dave, Matt and Zap every week as they cover a true crime or compelling story as well as Vintage Cinema and Album Review where they break down some of the best movies and music from the past.
Ol' Dirty Basement: True Crime and Vintage Movie Reviews
The Disappearance of Aundria Bowman Part 1
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What happens when the past refuses to stay buried? Join us as we unravel the complex and haunting case of Aundria Bowman, a teenager whose mysterious disappearance in 1989 has left a trail of questions and intrigue. We dig into the layers of Aundria's life, from her troubled adoption to the chilling events surrounding her vanishing, all while considering the emotional turmoil faced by adopted children. Inspired by the Netflix documentary "Into the Fire," our exploration takes a deep dive into the heart of a true crime saga that refuses to be forgotten, touching on themes of rebellion, justice, and the relentless pursuit of truth by both professionals and amateur sleuths alike.
We invite you to explore the turbulent life of Kathy, Aundria's biological mother, whose personal struggles and difficult decisions led to Aundria's adoption by Dennis and Brenda Bowman. This episode doesn't shy away from the dark realities of familial discord, infidelity, and a haunting connection to Soul Asylum's "Runaway Train." Listen as we examine how amateur detectives and online communities like Web Sleuths have reignited interest in Aundria's cold case, while questioning the role of her adoptive and biological parents in this ongoing mystery. Amidst a backdrop of suspected serial predators and connected abductions, the narrative challenges us to consider the complexities of adoption and the shadows it can cast on identity and belonging.
From shocking revelations of an adoptive father with a criminal past to the chilling parallels between Aundria's case and other unsolved disappearances, this episode keeps you on the edge of your seat. We delve into technological advancements that have fueled new leads, highlighting how modern-day armchair detectives are solving mysteries that have long perplexed law enforcement. As we confront the unsettling realities of connected abduction cases and the potential presence of a serial predator, we invite you to question the intricacies of justice, the power of community, and the truths that lie just beneath the surface. This is a story that grips the heart and won't let go, and we're excited to bring it to you.
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thanks for tuning in to the old dirty basement on this week's episode. We're covering part one of the disappearance of andrea bowman.
Speaker 2:Yeah, andrea bowman. What happened? Where'd she go? An adoption gone wrong? Who?
Speaker 3:knows. Yeah, I don't know much about this. I know there's a thing on netflix right now. It's pretty pretty hot, so, um, it's interesting story yeah, it's called uh into the fire.
Speaker 1:But anyway, I hope you're enjoying the podcast. If you are, leave us a five-star rating on Spotify, on Apple, a written review, and sit back, relax and enjoy part one of the disappearance of Andrea Bowman.
Speaker 4:This is the old, dirty basement. Home to debauchery, madness, murder and mayhem. Home to debauchery, madness, murder and mayhem. A terror-filled train ride deep into the depths of the devil's den.
Speaker 1:With a little bit of humor.
Speaker 2:History and copious consciousness.
Speaker 4:I'm your announcer, shallow Throat. Your hosts are Dave Matt and Zap. I love you, matthew McConaughey. Your hosts are Dave Matt and Zap.
Speaker 3:I love you, matthew McConaughey. All right, all right, all right. Hey, this is Dave, matt and Zap, and welcome to the Old Dirty Basement.
Speaker 1:Where every week we cover a true crime, murder or compelling story.
Speaker 3:So sit back, relax and comprehend. Hello everyone out there and welcome back to the old Dirty Basement. I am Matt. With me always is Dave and Zap.
Speaker 1:What's going on?
Speaker 3:Hey, how are ya All right? Good, good, how are you guys?
Speaker 1:doing Good, had to knock the cobwebs off down here.
Speaker 3:Yeah, what was it? A little dusty down here. I knocked the dust off of that down here. Yeah, what was it A little dusty down here I knocked the dust off of that.
Speaker 1:Well, we all have schedules, we all work, we all do things. Zap had a travels to.
Speaker 2:Las Vegas. Oh viva Las Vegas.
Speaker 1:And you know we all got our stuff going on, so it's good to be back.
Speaker 2:I hear that life is what happens when you're busy making other plans, that's right, I guess we were back last week with Kingpin back last week with kingpin.
Speaker 3:Oh yes, this is a two for one night.
Speaker 2:So that's john lennon. Yes, beautiful boy.
Speaker 3:Well, look at look at the ears on matt. That is a great song look at the big brain on matt actually I said that because I I made a well, my wife and I well, I just, I'll just say my wife we made a thing for our son, like for his first birthday, and that was john lennon, beautiful boy, but that's a great song great Fun fact, I'd never heard that song until I'd seen Mr Holland's Opus.
Speaker 2:That was the first time I'd heard that song.
Speaker 3:Oh, another fantastic movie.
Speaker 2:Was that?
Speaker 1:Dreyfuss in that yeah.
Speaker 3:We could probably do a review on that one. We could.
Speaker 1:It falls within the parameters.
Speaker 2:It certainly falls within the parameters and actually has a bit to do with what we're talking about today in a loosely related way, but still.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so tonight's one is actually my pick. I saw this documentary on Netflix. The way they did it, I mean it was great. It's like two episodes and it's just a wild story.
Speaker 2:That's all I can really say about it Unbelievable. And for clarity for our listeners, so we have never and will never do a review of a Netflix show or a review of a Netflix movie. This is simply happens to be the same story, so this is a deep dive into the story, which also happened to be featured on Netflix.
Speaker 3:Which is kind of cool when Netflix does have something, so it's easier for people when they hear this Sure, they can reference that. Or maybe they've watched this, yes, and then yeah, so it's easier for people when they hear this, sure they can reference that, or maybe they've watched this, yes, and then.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's pretty neat and for this, like it's a documentary. So it's all the real people, all the real footage, everything is actually legit. It's not like a reenactment or like a director took liberties and like all we're going to change is. No, this is actual footage of the, of the interviews and the police interrogation.
Speaker 3:And to see the see the people brings it closer.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it was just really well done. And it's the disappearance of Andrea Bowman and the Netflix show is called into the fire.
Speaker 2:It was, you know, thanks to doing the story. So I had done all the research and done all the writeup of this. But, you know, just for your sake, david, and just to keep the the continuity together, I did watch the netflix series and I was happy to find that I had, I mean, I really dug deep on on this. So I'm glad I got everything I had gotten, that was, I should say, everything that I had done was also included in the documentary. But you know, again, for everyone's sake, because I know it's going to be referenced, I'm, you know, I'm glad that I watched at the. But part of me isn't oh really.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this was a dark one. Man Like this was really fucking dark.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it definitely was.
Speaker 3:Yeah, these are the ones sometimes where people are like, oh, I like that episode, but it's kind of it is yeah. I mean, and when we get into it, the deeper you get into, I don't know it kind of scares you in a way that.
Speaker 1:Well, we don't want to give away what happened.
Speaker 3:No, no, no, I think we're just shooting the shit.
Speaker 1:We're just talking. I know what you mean, though.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there was definitely some darkness in this, you know. That's why we're in the basement, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So let's dive into the disappearance of Andrea Bowman. Now we can't talk about Andrea Bowman without first meeting Kathy Turkanian. So Kathy Turkanian, whose maiden name remains unknown to us, was born in 1958. She was one of six kids born to three different fathers and her mother, Shirley Wait rewind that she had five siblings to three different baby daddies. Okay, Okay, Same mom, three dudes, three daddies.
Speaker 3:Think of it as three dudes, one cup. Okay yeah, Same mom three daddies.
Speaker 2:Yeah, six offspring. Okay, kathy's stepfather, who was by now her mother's third seed bearer, served in the navy. Now, due to his navy employ, her stepfather was gone for lengthy periods of time, leaving kathy's mother with the obligation to care for the six kids. It's like one of the village people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, in the navy indeed yes although I'm guessing more heterosexual, maybe, maybe, maybe In the Navy. In the Navy, by the time Kathy was in seventh grade her family had relocated seven times. I guess that's Navy life for you. Kathy claims to have been abused at the age of 10 by the husband of one of her mother's friends. Also, she claims to have been raped by a fellow schoolmate at the age of 12.
Speaker 1:Rough start there.
Speaker 2:That's a rough start, but drawn to the allure of the counterculture at the time and by counterculture I mean hippies and tired of what she claims was physical abuse from her mother, kathy ran away from home in 1972 at the age of 14. She hitchhiked to Tennessee, then made her way to New Orleans on a bus. So I guess she had a contact in Tennessee. I don't know if it was some friend, maybe somebody lived local. Again, she'd moved seven goddamn times.
Speaker 3:That's a tough upbringing from the first line that you told us there, with like three different baby daddies. Yeah yeah, that's a lot of like a triad warm-up on that one so I don't.
Speaker 1:I don't know if they even said in the documentary and I couldn't find it in my research, but was she born in virginia, like norfolk area as well? That would make sense because the dad being her dad being in the navy and stuff like that it would make sense.
Speaker 2:But at the same time this chick chick relocated seven fucking times. I don't know for sure about that one.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It would be a happy coincidence.
Speaker 1:And Tarkanian. There was a coach.
Speaker 2:I think it was Tarkanian UNLV, unlv. Yeah, he chewed on the towel.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Jerry Tarkanian.
Speaker 2:Tark the shark they would call real yeah back in the 70s or what correct. Like when, but when the lakers started becoming huge, and I mean huge, like, basically, when magic johnson came on. Okay, he was supposed to have been the coach and, like the mob, everybody, but not the mob, I'm sorry. Everybody wanted him. He was being lobbied so hard and paid so heavily and so handsomely to go to the lakers impress zap.
Speaker 3:That was a jerry west actually. Yeah, he did want him for the coach.
Speaker 2:The mob stepped in and said fuck, no, you are not leaving las vegas to go to la.
Speaker 1:They didn't want to leave you on lv, correct? I wonder if he was like the inside for the betting could have been like.
Speaker 2:Whatever it was, man, it was the mob. The mob that kept them at unlv fun fact unlv football.
Speaker 1:Now we're recording tonight as a. What are we we Tuesday night this? Is. Friday.
Speaker 2:Taco Tuesday.
Speaker 1:Taco Tuesday this Friday, UNLV's football team is actually ranked. They're playing Boise State in a Friday night game. Unlv's football team is usually never ranked. Known for their basketball football team not so much. So by the time this comes out we'll know if they win or not.
Speaker 3:They'll probably drop out Boise State, the Broncos. They play on a. Do you know what color their turf? Is. Blue yes, a blue turf.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but yeah, this girl back to this rough upbringing teenager now on the run.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she met up with an old colleague or again, a childhood friend. Again, you move seven times you're going to meet people. She had a contact in Tennessee and basically was like, look, I'm going to do it, I'm going to do it. And so she ran away and made her way to Tennessee, Her friend in Tennessee. So she hitched her way to Tennessee and then her friend gave her some money or hooked her up with some clothes or whatever, and then she took a Greyhound bus to New Orleans.
Speaker 1:New Orleans and some shit can go down down there for sure, mardi Gras, all that Bourbon Street, mardi.
Speaker 2:Gras Bourbon Street. That was the draw for her to go down there when she went to Tennessee. She either ran and either her friend mentioned it or somebody she met on, maybe while she was hitching, said oh look, if you want to go someplace fun or exciting, whatever, they're celebrating Mardi Gras down in New Orleans. New Orleans, yeah With nothing but clothes on her back and some pocket change. What has she got to lose with nothing but clothes on her back and some pocket change? What has she got to lose?
Speaker 3:But that's crazy. You're saying by the time she was in seventh grade. So what's that like? 12? 13, maybe 13. She's moved seven times.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So she doesn't have you don't have any stable friends, no stable place to call home.
Speaker 2:Yeah, military life is tough it is.
Speaker 2:It really is. It can be enough amongst the ranks, or if you're deployed to this, that and the other thing I mean there's so many different variables that can affect it. I mean, you're, there is the propensity for you to move around anyways. Now in new orleans, kathy became friends with a guy named randy badger, who was a 19 year old who would hitchhike his way to new orleans from los angeles. They quickly located a place to stay and found work together in a sideshow at a circus. I can never be good.
Speaker 3:No.
Speaker 2:Can you imagine? I think of a Christmas vacation and Randy Quaid's talking about his kid, like you know, for for he currently he's spreading pixie dust, but on the whatever. But then he's going to operate the tilt a whirl. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, in December 1972, kathy and Randy left for South Carolina to get married. As it was permissible at the time for a minor to marry with consent from their parents, kathy reconnected with her parents, obtained the necessary consent and she and Randy were soon married. Now that's December 72. She's 14. She's 14, bro, 15, let's say 14 going on, 14 going on 15.
Speaker 3:Wow but I I still think in some states, like the age of consent with your parents, permission is 13 still yeah, I think still like there's a lot of states that never changed those that those laws yes, from back in the day there's a friend of mine.
Speaker 2:His wife was a married, her first marriage.
Speaker 3:She was married at 16 yeah, that's crazy yeah, that's out of appalachian section yeah, but if you're like back in the day though, like like will and wallace times and shit, sure yeah, big deal. You'd be like 20 and your wife would be like 11 well, that's the thing by the time.
Speaker 2:Well, you're over the hill by the time you're 15. Yeah, you're dead.
Speaker 3:You're dead If you lived to like 33, they're like wow, look at this old guy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're an elder. Yeah Well, they wear them white wigs and they look old. You know wooden teeth.
Speaker 2:But this is 1700s, wooden teeth 1500s I don't know, I don't know, but it was a great movie yeah all right.
Speaker 2:Within their first year of marriage, kathy discovered she was pregnant. On june 23rd 1974, kathy and randy welcomed their daughter, alexis badger, into the world. Alas, soon after a after Alexis's birth, kathy and Randy's relationship quickly deteriorated. No, I'm shocked. Wow. While Kathy took care of Alexis and worked, her husband appeared more interested in going out to parties with friends and other women. Kathy had enough one day when she arrived home from work. Well, that's true. Kathy had enough one day One arrived home from work. Well, that's true.
Speaker 3:Kathy had enough. One day, one day Enough.
Speaker 2:One day she'd had enough when she arrived home from work and discovered Randy kissing an unknown woman on their couch as Alexis cried by herself in the back room, kathy made the decision to go and took Alexis with her. The two made their way to virginia to reconnect with kathy's mother and stepfather you know back in norfolk, correct? Yep, so this they, they made their way.
Speaker 1:She made her way back to norfolk after going to tennessee, then going to new orleans, then going to south carolina, then going back yeah, I mean, when you're that young, not to say you can't, that people don't do it and can't do it, but that's awfully young to be having kids and trying to yeah, for sure, to raise a child and stuff like that look, the circus.
Speaker 2:Life is hard, bro. Well for sure, I mean, you're gonna see a lot of passers-by right when you're, when you're spreading pixie dust on the tilta world, you're, you're gonna see a lot of uh, available young ladies. What it happened to joe dirt? Yeah, when he's spraying pam into the cups for the I'm sorry, on the bottles for the ring toss but uh, some of the stories we have it.
Speaker 3:It trips me out, though, for, like back in the day, these dudes were like why don't you just come back to my house? Yeah, just like. Aren't you married? Yeah, it's cool, it's no big deal. Yeah, just come and watch a movie it's cool she's working.
Speaker 2:It's cool, yeah, I'll put the kid in the back room without. So, yeah, the kid, you hear him cry, but that's no big deal. I neglected to mention the. The baby was when. What's her again, this is according to kathy. This is kathy's story. Kathy, turkanian story. When she came home and found randy, you know, in flagrante delecto, the kid, alexis, was in the back without a diaper, just basically naked and just crying like daddy, you know, pooping on herself yeah, it's just a baby. For God's sake.
Speaker 3:Take care of your kids. He was just trying to get lucky. Keep your goddamn babies off the
Speaker 2:street.
Speaker 1:One of those little pack and play. Looking things back, then we didn't have pack and plays, but they're like little. I guess they weren't packing plays back.
Speaker 3:No, we had cribs, they were like cribs.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're just putting cribs MTV.
Speaker 3:Cribs MTV.
Speaker 2:Cribs, mtv Cribs, is that?
Speaker 1:what they were called I know there's actually pictures of me in the. I thought it was more Bassinet. Yeah, maybe that's what it is no it's a crib Is that what it was?
Speaker 3:No, we had cribs. We didn't have the pack and play type thing.
Speaker 1:I felt like there was something like that back in the 70s. I got pictures of that with the big bottle, you know what I mean Like, and I don't think it was my crib, maybe it was.
Speaker 2:So isn't a crib? Basically a mattress surrounded by the four walls, the bars.
Speaker 1:But I felt like this thing was like bigger.
Speaker 2:So you're my Uncle Joey, Maybe like used to these bars kid Maybe like a day crib or something, I don't know Something they put you in just to watch you up.
Speaker 3:My dad would like tie a balloon around me, so he could see where I was crawling around the house right, somebody remind me what.
Speaker 2:What's a pack and play?
Speaker 1:it's just affordable like a horrible, like a crib, but it's a little bit bigger play space when you want to contain the kid, you'd put them in the pack and play. Okay, because they can. You know they kind of look out over the top.
Speaker 3:Is there balls in there you can throw you can do whatever you want in there it's padded, you can do whatever you want? Yeah, you can.
Speaker 1:It's like a party grown ass baby yeah, it's just like a big mesh kind of pack and play. Yeah, it's just uh like a big mesh crib, okay, but bigger than me like like five by five maybe but that's what I envision, like her like at this time back in like a pack and play and the dad's out there hooking up the joys of parenting.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he threw her in a crib yeah, and this is so.
Speaker 2:This is shitty Randy just wanting to get his wiggles out with just random whores.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Hook is. By now, kathy's mom, shirley, had been diagnosed with breast cancer and was given five years to live. In Shirley's eyes, kathy's return meant that there would now be someone to look after all the other children Shirley had birthed. Realizing that a 16-year-old runaway is in no shape to be a mother, let alone a caregiver for her younger siblings, after her mother's forthcoming death, kathy offered her infant up for adoption.
Speaker 3:Shirley took care of all of the arrangements, shirley, she couldn't do it by herself.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Shirley, you can't be serious. Yeah, I am, and stop calling me Shirley. Don't call me Shirley.
Speaker 2:At 10 months old, alexis was adopted by Dennis and Brenda Bowman of Holland, michigan, via a closed adoption. Kathy was 17 at the time and Kip Winger would approve Absolutely adoption. Kathy was 17 at the time and Kip Winger would approve. The Bowmans changed Alexis' name to Andrea and began their life as a family thanks to the miracle of adoption. Meanwhile, forsaking her siblings and the thought of having to care for her ailing mother, kathy left home again not long after the adoption was completed, hoping for things to go differently this time. After a number of odd jobs, kathy enrolled in nursing school.
Speaker 1:while in school, she met ed turkanian, with whom she shacked up not long after and married 10 months after meeting yeah, at that time kathy was like in her 30s, I think, like thirties, when she met this Turcanian character and got married and um yeah. So she had given it up the daughter for adoption. Her mother kind of cornered her she said on that documentary and kind of like talked her into doing it.
Speaker 3:She's like it's going to be a better life. Yeah, you need to give the kid a better life.
Speaker 2:There's like, so I see that, but there's the the, the reason that I did this without watching that documentary. The only side that you got in that documentary was kathy's side.
Speaker 1:That is truly the only side of this story well, I'm sure the mother's not around to defend herself, or you know what I mean, or?
Speaker 2:doesn't want to be seen, definitely doesn't want.
Speaker 1:You're saying the adoptive mother no, oh, what's her name surely yeah, she had passed away, so you're only ever going to get uh, you know, right athlete side, I think at this point, unless the mother documented it back then of course I mean.
Speaker 3:But I mean, yeah, absolutely, this is all from her perspective, the, uh, the netflix series yes, right, right right, and the thing with the uh closed adoption also is they they don't have any contact with the parents, like I think these days they try to make more of like an open adoption where, like, the parents that are giving the kid away are still, like, involved with the child. I think back in the 70s, 80s the closed adoption was more of the thing that you did, yeah.
Speaker 2:But now today, oh, go ahead. No, I'm sorry, go ahead. I want to cut you off.
Speaker 3:No, I you off today with like the DNAs and all that stuff Like, yeah, you can find out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I can see the. I mean, I can certainly see the merit in a closed adoption where it's like, look, you don't want to confuse this kid. You chose to give up this kid. Like you know, if I'm two parents, right, or if I'm one of two parents, thank you for, you know, one number one. Thank you for not aborting this kid too. Thank you for enabling me with the ability to, you know, have a child or have a child in my life and raise and rear a child If, for whatever reason, either I can't have kids or I just want to add to my existing family. You know there's a good friend of ours that we went to high school with whom we went to high school they have. He and his wife have a couple of kids of their own and they ended up adopting like five or six kids in addition to their own.
Speaker 3:Wow.
Speaker 2:Huge family, huge and it's great. Loves them.
Speaker 1:That was through the Norfolk Virginia adoption adoption agency and it was like a Catholic organization.
Speaker 2:Catholic charities yeah.
Speaker 1:They're the ones that. And the mother was like look, this is going to be the best for you and for the kid. Do it now while the kid's young, like nine, 10 months old or whatever it was, because you have a better chance of her getting adopted and into a good, good family, and so that's for sure.
Speaker 2:I mean you see the commercials now, but I forgot, not forgot, I neglected to mention. So with the concept of closed adoption, it's like look again, thank you for the kid, thank you, thank you, thank you. But let's not confuse this kid, right? Thank you for birthing, but get the fuck out of my life now You've given up the kid, it's, it's mine to raise.
Speaker 3:Thank you very much Once you sign it off like that I think that's when it it becomes closed.
Speaker 2:There is no Sure, there's absolutely like cases closed for sure, but yeah. But, matt, to your point, though, a closed adoption is, like you, no peaky, no site.
Speaker 3:You know, I, as the the, the giving, as the giver, I don't know who the recipient is yes, and vice versa, vice versa, and it's very hard to find out, until like today where you said I mean, they do that dna it's, it's all you can find out. Oh, this person is my dad yeah, we're connected yeah yeah, for sure, and we've.
Speaker 2:We've been through the well, we've got friends of ours. Well, that has gone significantly awry yes definitely bad like. So uh yeah, just with christmas right around the corner, good ideas to not buy your family like 23 and me 23 and me package or whatever the fuck that is heritage, what I don't even know what these things are called, so you find out, your dad had actually 23 kids and you yeah 23 you're like wow it You're like wow, it's 23 and me Is that what that meant. Yes, does that mean I hit the lottery?
Speaker 1:It might be.
Speaker 2:All right. Several years later, several when Andrea was 13 years old and now in high school, dennis and Brenda experienced another miracle. When, against all odds, brenda became pregnant, vanessa Bowman would be born nine months later, adding another layer of joy to the Bowman home. By now, andrea had become somewhat of a problem child. She'd run away from home a few times and stayed at friends' houses. She'd gotten busted for petty shoplifting and she was prone to fits of rage with her mother at one point putting her fist through a plate of glass in a door at the Bowman's residence. The Bowmans tried their best with counseling, but nothing seemed to work.
Speaker 2:On March 11, 1989, andrea Bowman went missing. Dennis had returned home from taking his wife to work that evening and discovered that a piece of luggage $100, and his adopted daughter were nowhere to be found. The whole town went on high alert searching for Andrea. A number of people from varying locations relayed sightings of Andrea to police everywhere, from roller rinks to truck stops, to strip joints, to out-of-state locations Alas joints to out-of-state locations. Alas, none of the sightings led anywhere. The case of andrea's disappearance went cold not long after, so that's got to be fucked up oh yeah, big time.
Speaker 1:I mean, you know, for a kid to go missing and and uh, she was having problems. I guess at that time they said like she was acting out doing different things but a teenager yeah, just being a teenager, so things like that go on. But fun fact on this missing person. So do you guys remember the song runaway train, uh, soul asylum runaway train never going back.
Speaker 3:I do.
Speaker 2:I do know and I do want to know where this is going. You mentioned it earlier, but I know, go ahead please.
Speaker 1:So soul asylum had. This song runaway train came out in 1993. They made three videos for the United States and videos for other countries. Now the video of the band was all the same but cut within the music. In the video were missing people and Andre Bowman was one of the people profiled in the video that released in the United States. One of the three.
Speaker 2:That is amazing.
Speaker 1:That song. For some reason back in the day, I hated it. Now, for some reason not because of this case or anything like that but over the past few years I've heard that song and really listened to the lyrics Lyrically. I really, really liked that song. That guy was super talented. It's a really great song. But yeah, I went online to look up the video on YouTube and I can't find the one with her, but there is a cut of one with her and they probably released them, like the Midwest, where all the kids from the Midwest that went missing.
Speaker 1:West coast, maybe an East coast, so it's out there. I just thought that was an interesting fact.
Speaker 2:That is an interesting fact. Side fun fact Soul Asylum has another track that came out of the same album Somebody to Shove.
Speaker 1:Yeah the same album. Uh, somebody to shove.
Speaker 2:Yeah, dude, somebody when I hear that song and I'm driving dude, that's one of those where I just hit the fucking gas and I'm just singing it and banging on my steering wheel like that's just a good track. Somebody to shove me the the guitar hook and that just really just gets me going. It's quite good.
Speaker 3:But um, the whole thing with her acting out and things like that, like when people would say this she's just an eighties kid, you know, and and like her friends even said like the dad was kind of mean or kind of weird, but that's just stuff that you say yeah, that's you know, look, that's what kids do.
Speaker 2:Oh so, fun fact in case we didn't cover it already. So I was adopted and I had parents that are, and still have, or at least one of them, a full generation removed. So I showed up on my parents' doorstep when my dad was like 40 or 41 years old versus, let's say, very early 20s, which puts him again that generation out. So it was almost like being raised by grandparents, almost young enough, but really borderline getting raised by grandparents. So, dude, as an only child with these older parents, I pushed so many envelopes and I'm sure that I was again as an only child. Look, you're going to be seek attention, you're going to be a class clown, you're going to do this, that and the other thing.
Speaker 2:Dude, I got away with so much shit and I can see how this girl's just lashing out or not able to get along with her parents. Or if she knew that she was adopted, maybe, as she's entering these, this is puberty, by the way, she's just getting into puberty. So much emotional change and whatnot. I can certainly see this going on. I don't know about the runaway per se, but you know, hey, look, push comes to shove. You know, you, if you think you can do it better, go ahead. Same thing, like your mother. You, you know you're in this case. You know kathy. She ran away. She thought she knew everything and what happened? She came. She came back a few years later with her tail between her legs. Kids are going to learn.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, tre, trey, you go learn and this, and we're about her age, or would have been around her age. So she was born in 74. I'm 75. And like I'm 76. So this is all within that same era. They had her friends on there talking about Andrea back in junior high and how they listened to Madonna. I mean she was having a decent life, but behind it all, was everything going well?
Speaker 2:I guess we'll find out. Well, I guess we'll find out. I guess we'll find out. Apparently it wasn't going well enough for her to stick around at home right all right.
Speaker 2:More than 20 years would pass when, in 2010, an armchair sleuth by the name of carl koppelman would prove to be the biggest catalyst in a monumental breakthrough. Though an accountant by trade, finding missing people had become both a hobby and a passion for him. Koppelman had been researching varying missing person cases when he came across a potential match which, after 10 years, had yet to be solved. An unidentified woman had been discovered dead in a cornfield in Wisconsin on July 21, 1999. Using her estimated age and the location of her discovery, kobel matched the unidentified woman to 13 possible women who'd gone missing. Kobelman contacted authorities with his discoveries. Discoveries, one of the women who fit the parameters for cobaltman's match was none other than andrea bowman. A quick dive into her birth records revealed that she had been adopted, and her birth mother, kathy turkanian, was soon after contacted by the adoption agency requesting a dna test there it is 35 years had passed since kathy had last seen the daughter she put up for adoption.
Speaker 2:So holy shit. But can you imagine? Can you imagine? No, I know being this woman, being just this kathy brought 35 years after she had a baby, gave it up for adoption. She gets a letter from the adoption agency. Now I'm wrapping my head around. What does she think is in that letter before she opens it? Right, yeah.
Speaker 2:Like this is me. So if I grew up in, or if I was born in Chicago, right? So if I and I lived there one year of my life, the first year of my life, if I got a letter from whatever adoption agency I was at while in Chicago, I wouldn't know what the fuck's in there. I couldn't imagine Like is this? I don't know? Did I just find out that the people that birthed me died and they left all of this money to me? Or did they find out that I had a brother or a sister I never knew about? Or you know it Like Christ, this is like I don't know. Like let's make a deal.
Speaker 1:Like who this is, like I don't know. Like let's make a deal Like who knows what's in that envelope. That Carl too, that was an interesting thing that they brought up about him. There was a website called Web Sleuths that like him, and there's like there's a bunch of people like that that are like armchair detectives and they would go on there and like piece these cases together and they would actually like this one, I mean, they would come up with some connections and stuff that police were overlooking or you know, they were helpful in a lot of these investigations. Now, this particular Jane Doe they found was in Racine I think is how you say it Wisconsin, which is directly across Lake Michigan from where it was right across the lake there it was directly west directly west of where these guys were, directly west, directly west of where these guys were.
Speaker 3:what? What gets me also is about a lot of these true crimes that we do, or if you listen to podcasts about true crimes, um it, a lot of these. Are these armchair sleuths that reopen these cases again, like a lot of these uh, cold cases, I guess they call them, or these these people at home doing this on their spare time, and you're kind of wondering where are the detectives? Or like is this just stuff that you know? The cops said in these areas are just like, ah, that we can't find it. It's good Like they give up on it. Is it Cause if these people are finding this stuff on the internet, it seems like it's out there. There's enough information to follow up.
Speaker 1:Well, think about it, like maybe I'm just saying working on this versus maybe a hundred people that are online. Yeah, trying putting all this information together and, uh, you start piecing it together like if you got a hundred people working on it versus like two detectives that are maybe like I'm not saying that's what they were doing with this, but I'm sure, but like the don't fuck with cats one. They remember that too that was a perfect example.
Speaker 3:Yeah, these people are out there, yeah, and that that's what I was thinking of also is, and they're just doing these things online, talking to different people and all of a sudden, you're like really putting things together well, I'll tell you.
Speaker 1:For instance, if you do anything nowadays because of the internet and camera phones, everything else, people are going to track you down. There was a game nfl game the washington commanders were playing. Who was in town? I've, I'm trying to remember. Oh, they were in Baltimore. So the commanders played Baltimore. Last week After the game there were two commander fans that were walking down the street in Baltimore and this dude in a Raven's Jersey was hunting down anybody in command gear Okay.
Speaker 1:He found these two guys and beat the shit out of them, jesus Christ. So this guy's filming it. There's other guys filming it and they're cheering and stuff and they're like, yeah, get them all. You know what I mean? Well, within a day, they found out who the guy was, where he worked, everything else. This guy got fired from his job, of course, and he's getting assault and everything else. So, with with the internet and with like people working like nonstop cross referencing photos with, you know, facebook and everything else, you're going to track everybody down.
Speaker 3:This is like today's crossword puzzles, cause you have so much I was just going to say it's like, it's like a hobby.
Speaker 2:That's the thing. Let me sit down. I swear to God and sunny Jesus, I was going to say this is some people work on crossword puzzles. Some people work on this.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's just something to do, it's a hobby man, I like bowling yeah just like bowling man.
Speaker 2:We, I swear to god and sonny jesus, we are going to start bowling yes that's that's a that's a new year's resolution, before the new year.
Speaker 2:Um, you know, when you, when you have these cases like this, uh, both of you, when, when you'd mention, like you know, how does this not get solved? How can non-professionals or people who are doing this as a hobby, uh, you know, like, don't fuck with cats, or like, in this particular instance, as we're going to learn, how do these things get solved by people who are not the police, not investigators, not professionally trained people? And I think it comes down to the, the simple inverse of the relationship of people to to cases. So, if you have a whatever kind of detective who might've been in Racine County or Racine town, wisconsin, who is finding this, and it's one or two people that are working on X number of cases, right. So if you have one or two people working on, call it 10 cases, 15 cases. Conversely, if you have 10 or 15 people working on one or two people working on, call it 10 cases, 15 cases. Conversely, if you have 10 or 15 people working on one or two cases, right, it's just the inverse of cases to to investigators.
Speaker 2:Sure you're going to come up with a result. It's like, you know, you, if you devote all of your assets, or your assets and abilities and all of that shit to to one one. You know one goal you're going to get there. You absolutely get there, and it's just the thing. There's only there's so many missing people. There's so many dead bodies. There's so much, there's only so much that any one or two people can hear.
Speaker 3:But it is a case on case basis. So in these small towns they're getting more cases on, and this is one that's kind of cold for now, so we've got to put that to the side Put all of our forces on this.
Speaker 1:That's right, we can solve it.
Speaker 3:maybe it's just like any place. You need to hire more people. It's a first in, first out method, man yeah they're only allowed to have three detectives on cold cases, so they're working on things and this stuff gets put to the side. I get it.
Speaker 1:I get it. This, carl too. Like you mentioned, zapp and you could probably talk about this is he was an accountant, so he would use his knowledge of spreadsheets and working with all that to build these spreadsheets of cold case people that were missing, versus where they're from, versus their birthdates, and he was able to use that to his advantage to build this database and it was amazing watching this guy put it together it's all data-driven and this was done back in 2010.
Speaker 2:Right, 2010,. This guy was together. It's all data driven, so, and this was done back in 2010 right the 2010 this guy was working on.
Speaker 2:So by now you know you're talking more than a few months, more than 14 years ago. Since then, there have been incredible and I mean incredible advances in databases and the use of databases. Now, databases themselves, sure they existed long before 2010, but manipulating and twisting them around pivot tables, you name it being able to find and search and link data to itself, I mean that has come hugely a long way since then. And think about ai getting involved, correct? And this guy's just some dude twerking around on a spreadsheet Like not for nothing. I'll certainly pat her on the back. My wife is the spreadsheet queen, I mean the queen of spreadsheets. Everything involves a spreadsheet. It has to.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:It's just what she does, and so, look, you give her a cold case, she'll figure it out.
Speaker 1:They had a Jane Doe. Like we said, they had a picture of the face of this Jane Doe that they released. He had developed some software, did something where he was able to take pictures of the different girls and and overlay the eyes.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the eyes were similar. Yeah, he said the nose has a little bit of a button.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and the nose was like longer and this and that and he was like this is a possible match. So everything they're looking at is like this might be Andrea Bowman, but we'll find out.
Speaker 3:But even them to even go and ping things in, like the area, like that cops aren't necessarily looking, they're looking in their area. But then like oh, this thing happened. Like oh, right over here, yeah.
Speaker 2:Just, and that's the thing it's. It all makes sense. Do you know? She disappeared here across the lake. Is that we find this body, that it matches this look, matches this description, matches. Everything is lining up, seems to make sense. Let's contact you know, she fits the the parameters. Let's contact this broad's birth mother and get some dna on the scene. Yep, well, to kathy's relief, the dna test proved that the missing woman found dead in the wisconsin, cornfield more than 10 years earlier was not andrea bowman. Still, kathy remained devastated to learn that the baby she'd put up for adoption all those years ago had not only gone missing but had also run away from home at the age of 14, just like she'd done.
Speaker 2:K. Kathy was now on a mission Find out what happened to her missing offspring. Kathy began her search via Facebook, establishing a Find Andrea Bowman page. Replies came pouring in from Andrea's childhood friends. Kathy would soon discover that the tales of Andrea's misgivings as a teen weren't the whole story. Meeting with Andrea's old friends and extended family, it turns out Andrea wasn't the only one guilty of wrongdoing. Allegations of physical abuse from both Dennis and Brenda began to surface, as did allegations of sexual abuse on the part of dennis and this is where it started to get interesting for me at this point of the uh, the story in in the documentary, I was like, okay, there's something going on here.
Speaker 1:There was actually a girl that reached out. Her name was meta, kind of like spelled m-e-t-t-a, not like meta, you know the facebook thing, but like the new facebook yeah, no pun intended with facebook.
Speaker 1:But oh, she reached out to um kathy, and was like hey, I lived in the same town as your daughter. The same year as your daughter, I was abducted. I was six years old and I was abducted um, taken out into the woods and basically assaulted, sexually assaulted. Now she had said I think whoever did that to me probably was the one that abducted your daughter like the chances of two different people in that area, like abducting kids and doing things like given this, given the small town perspective, the chance of having two different creepers right around that same time was slim to none right and what was crazy about meta story, too, is that she had that sketch right, she had a sketch from back in the day when she was abducted and, like you said, she was told to go into the woods.
Speaker 3:A man in a car, um, I guess he was. He didn't actually what. He didn't rape her, he did. He sexually assaulted her, but he got cut off because there were dogs.
Speaker 1:Yes, okay then people in the area because it was by a campground. Yeah, he did. He sexually assaulted her, but he got cut off because there were dogs.
Speaker 3:Yes, okay, then the people in the area, because it was by a campground, yeah, and he got, he got like, he was like.
Speaker 1:Oh shit, you know what I mean, how? Did you get this chick into the woods. So the girl was like six years old, okay, and she was walking like at six years old, which I couldn't believe, but her parents, I guess she was walking to a friend's house.
Speaker 3:What in the 80s?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, come on, you were walking to your friend's house, and that was in the city true, true.
Speaker 1:So he had stopped and goes. He's like hey, little girl, I know your mother and she told me to pick you up because I'm gonna take you to see some puppies. And the little girl was like oh, I love puppies, that sounds awesome.
Speaker 1:Sure you know my mom. Yeah, yeah, get in the truck. It's a red pickup truck. She gets in and and they're driving and she's like, well, when are we going to get to the farm? I'm going to say we're almost there, almost there, you know this and that. And uh, after a while, like, his demeanor changed and she said like, and she remembers all this. Obviously it was a traumatic very traumatic event.
Speaker 1:So this happened to her. He, you know he ran off, left her there. She walked naked out to the road and some people found her and took her to the authorities and she gave her story. It was in the paper. It had a sketch of this individual and she was like I think our stories are connected. Whoever did this to Andrea? If she did go missing by abduction, I think it's connected to me.
Speaker 3:And, like you said, it was within like a five mile range or something it's so close.
Speaker 1:Wherever it was within like a five mile range or something it was, so it's so close, like in a wherever it was went right by this house for some reason right, so we'll let you get into the next thing, and then we'll elaborate more on that okay, that's wild. It's definitely gonna come back into the story, so interesting, so wait before we go.
Speaker 2:Matt mentioned something about a sketch a sketch of who or what of the abductor she had a sketch that she sat down at the age of what?
Speaker 3:six? Right, she was six. Yeah, oh, with, like the police guy a police sketch and it showed like this guy had like a, like a mustache and like his eyes he just looked like I mean I'm not gonna lie like it looked like probably a lot of dudes yeah, yeah, general sketch of some dude in the 80s it wasn't very easy to like uh, which, for damn Dan Shore.
Speaker 2:I mean, he had a mustache.
Speaker 1:Right, which everybody did back then 100%, and a red pickup truck and a red pickup truck yeah, who doesn't have a pickup truck and a hat?
Speaker 2:In Michigan. Yeah, and sideburns and skin, all right.
Speaker 3:With eyes and a nose. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:And exactly. And ears he had two ears exactly. So I guess the, the yeah, kathy is now this again. This birth mother, this birthing mother, is now on a mission to find out. You know what's going on. I want to find out more about andre's background and she's talking to her friends and not. This is now, in addition to that, that meta chick you'd mentioned. There's all these, the, some of the, if not all of the childhood friends that you mentioned earlier with you know they're dancing in dancing in the room. Girls just want to have fun.
Speaker 2:They came out having a good time and they said well, look man, no, there's more to this than you think.
Speaker 3:She would complain to us that you know her dad or her mom just beat the shit out of her or they would malnourish or this, that the other thing like shit meals or crap meals or something like that yeah, a lot of her friends were saying going over there there were some things that her dad did that alarmed them right, right, like, or just how scared she was if the debt and the mother wouldn't do anything right, and I think she was like a very like they were a very christian family, or quote unquote.
Speaker 2:Dude this and this chick. The dennis's wife brand Brenda. There is no doubt she was an absolutely 100% devoted wife.
Speaker 3:The stand-by-your-man Patsy Cline type Correct.
Speaker 2:Schnizzle, I mean devoted wife, absolute devoted wife. Yep, he could have cut her limbs off. Dennis could have cut Brenda's arms and legs off, and she would still love him to death. She would pray for him oh thank you, that's right. She would pray for him.
Speaker 3:Oh thank you, that's right. She would have prayed for him. Thank you, man. I have another.
Speaker 2:There's a bright side to it, I'm sure. Yeah, I guess it's. You know, the onion starting to peel. In fact, it wasn't long before the onion began to peel further.
Speaker 2:Andrea had been given the opportunity to share her tale of woe a number of times, and she'd done just that with other parents, teachers, social workers and the like. The problem lied in no one believing her, or no one believing the Bowmans could be as callous as Andrea described. When Andrea ran away, she took almost none of her belongings no purse, no extra clothes, no nothing. And soon after Andrea's disappearance the Bowmans moved to a new residence in a different part of town. Kathy's curiosity was at a fever pitch. Something just didn't make sense.
Speaker 2:With allegations of impropriety on the part of the Bowmans on her mind, kathy did some digging into Dennis Bowman's history, of course, with the help of Carl Kopelman, kathy was able to discover a murky past in Dennis's life. In 1980, dennis pleaded guilty to assault with intent to commit sexual misconduct after trying to lure a teenage girl into the woods outside of town. At gunpoint he was forced to miss his official arraignment because he was in Norfolk, virginia at the time, for a two-week military drill. Anyway, for this crime he served five years in prison. Andrea was 11 years old when he was released In 1998, now this is long after Andrea had disappeared. Dennis was arrested for breaking and entering into a co-worker's home from which he'd stolen lingerie. He was sentenced to and served one year in county jail. Kathy was convinced that there was more to Andrea's disappearance than just her running away. She was also convinced that Dennis Bowman had something to do with it.
Speaker 1:Finding all that information on Dennis. There's a thing called the FOIA.
Speaker 1:Freedom of Information Agency so they were able to dig all that up on him. So back to what we were talking about earlier, now that we kind of know this about Dennis In Pennsylvania we call that right to know, Right to know, right. So back to what we were talking about, this meta, right? So they have this Facebook page with all these pictures and, you know, Andre, help us find her. Here's a picture of her family, here's, you know, clips of her parents talking about her and this and that this meta goes I know that guy the dad, I, I know that guy the dad. He, I recognize him. That's the guy that abducted me when I was six years old.
Speaker 2:So she saw a picture of this guy that Kathy, yes.
Speaker 1:And then she heard his voice and said that's his voice. I'll never forget the voice and that red pickup truck. Sure enough, family members, they get with them Like. Hey, this is Dennis, Like did, Did he ever have a red? He indeed had a red pickup truck, Beat up red pickup truck back in the day, so allegedly Allegedly he had adopted a six-year-old and sexually assaulted her, and all that, yeah, metta.
Speaker 2:But Metta is not the girl for which he actually pleaded guilty to assault with intent to commit sexual misconduct.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:That's a completely different one. These are all different. Yeah, so there was the meta that they never saw or, at this point, that they haven't saw, and then another one in 1980.
Speaker 1:So, there were two incidents Again, if you include meta as an incident and keep this in the back of your mind missing the official Raymond for two weeks because he's going to Norfolk, virginia. So keep that in mind as we move forward. That's going to come up later, I believe.
Speaker 3:Also, when you're talking about when Andrea ran away, like you said, I think she only had like her jacket and a couple other things that were missing, but nothing that somebody that would run away have, but she was also spotted.
Speaker 3:That's the thing she was seen at several places. 100% yeah, I seen her here. I seen her down there. She was at a bar like I, I've seen that girl. So she's out there missing. So a lot of the cops are like you know she's a runaway. Yeah right, she's doing her own thing. She might have got a job. She might have met a man like she might be working somewhere got to do with me.
Speaker 2:Right, I got some man. I ain't trying to hear that, see, but yeah she's doing her own thing now.
Speaker 3:Yeah, apparently so. The the dad and mom are like look like she's a teenager. She ran away. What are we going to do about it?
Speaker 2:they were getting caught back, exactly like you said and it's not just from you know like red crown bowling down the way, yeah, or some mall down the way numerous places out of state out of state out of state.
Speaker 3:People were saying hey man, I saw andrea bowman, she was here, she was there and I'm glad you said out of state, because some of the cops are like out of state, out of mind, like that's not, that's not my problem, it's not a problem or our jurisdiction, or whatever, there's also something weird.
Speaker 1:I don't know if this ties to anything, but there was something with the amount of money that was missing, or the hundred dollars?
Speaker 2:yes, they had gotten. They had gotten an income tax refund, but wasn't there something where it was went from.
Speaker 1:they changed it from $100, they said, no, it was $150 because it changed the investigation or did something, I forget.
Speaker 3:A crime of she stole something from her parents.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't know it had to be a certain amount of money.
Speaker 3:Where it wasn't, it was something reportable.
Speaker 1:Maybe that's what it was. They had changed it. No, it was $150. Like they changed Portable.
Speaker 2:Maybe that's what it was. Yes, yes, they had changed it. No, it was $150. They changed it all of a sudden. I don't know, maybe if they're looking for insurance recovery or something A reportable crime. So what I still can't wrap my head around is that the dad came home and found that Andrea was gone, $100 was gone and a piece of luggage was gone, but yet all of her clothes were still there. Yeah, what?
Speaker 1:all of her clothes were still there, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, it's like I'd minus, like a jacket and whatever the hell she was wearing at the time. So what does she need? A bag without just to throw a hundred dollars in?
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:It's not adding up, something is is is definitely wrong. And then when I Christ, when I hear about the, the unsolved miss or yet to be solved mystery of you know meta, I don't think we can say unsolved mystery.
Speaker 3:Mike, I get a hit for that.
Speaker 2:No, I try my best. I try my very best to not overuse the prefix un. I think it's absolutely misused regardless.
Speaker 1:Not yet solved, correct, oh good one Correct.
Speaker 2:I would say not yet solved versus unsolved. That would tell me that, or at least indicate that it had been solved. But now you removed it being solved, so it's not solved anymore. How did that happen, right? You unsolved it, right?
Speaker 1:all right, like I untied or I unwound so when did they adopt?
Speaker 2:andrea was 74, 74 she was yeah, 10 months in 1974.
Speaker 3:A few years later, in 80, this, uh, this dentist pleaded guilty to assault Correct and I guess they were seeing the story with that. The guy was shooting at the woman's feet or the girl's feet.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he was like get in the wood, do what I tell you yeah do what I tell you.
Speaker 3:And he was actually that's where the assault, deadly weapon, dance McFly. Yeah, so you're figuring, wouldn't authorities, wouldn't there be somebody stepping in for like an? I guess? I guess you can't cause. They illegally adopted the child. That's something where like protective services or like the people that gave the kid up for adoption. Would be like the, the company or whatever, or I don't know how that's the agency agency.
Speaker 1:Thank you, I don't know if they follow up, though, like agency.
Speaker 3:Thank you, I don't know if they follow up though, like I don't know, but wouldn't you like going to be like a five, ten year?
Speaker 1:you think they vet them like ahead of time and then after that if you go bad, I guess so it's not like.
Speaker 2:It's not like the kid didn't have an other parent, so true, had the mother, yeah, so while dennis was in jail for five years or whatever, and by the time he got out, andrea was 11 years old. At the time she still had brenda.
Speaker 3:She still had her mom, right, yeah but yeah, a sexual misconduct with the children or a child under age would be something.
Speaker 1:I think that's like a red flag you would think, but I think it's just like anything once you're adopted, that's your child that's your child.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the mother is the mother and the father's it does, yeah, and it does beg the question right. So this certainly happened after the fact. You know she was adopted in 74, 70, sorry, 75. She was no late 74, early 75.
Speaker 3:So five years, four or five years after.
Speaker 2:So she's five or six years old at the time when, when this goes down, or at least when Dennis goes into jail.
Speaker 1:Plus, that was in Virginia, she was adopted. Now they're in michigan right.
Speaker 2:So let's pretend that we have, you know, a mother and father with biological children and the father gets busted for, you know, doing up, you know some nasty shit with kids. So if he gets he, if he goes to jail for five years, does that mean when he gets out that he's not allowed to live with his own kids, or he he's, you know, is he going to lose custody of his kids again?
Speaker 3:he's got a wife who can do it. You're right, that's the way our system's set up, like, as long as they have that rule, though, that you have to register or whatever yeah, but you wouldn't register as a sex with your own house with.
Speaker 2:But see, wouldn't that be yeah I'm not saying I'd be against it. Understand that I'm not. I'm not saying I'd be against it. It just it does beg the question like what happens when that happens?
Speaker 3:that's what I mean. I think that's a good question, because shouldn't the the problem be eliminated from the?
Speaker 1:if you're a pedophile, yeah you take the children well, you don't take the kids out of the house, but you get out of the house but also be there, you know with an adopted kid.
Speaker 3:I think that would be more of a red, but like I, said like, once they're adopted, like you are now you are their parent. Yes, so they can't they can't go.
Speaker 1:Oh, it's different, you know yeah, because that would that would be another charge against, like the right, I don't know and like I said, this is back in the day and I don't think they were really up on it like they would be now, with, like just databases and knowing what's going on, you know they'd be able to keep track of it more now, I believe.
Speaker 3:And and obviously C2, we are saying and and the way that they would do this in a court. It was a teenage girl. So it wasn't what we were like, kind of I was maybe thinking it was younger, but um, still I mean teenage is still under age.
Speaker 2:but the way that they look at things, back then too, in the 1980s.
Speaker 3:I think we're different than what you're trying to do today right for sure that's fair, that's fair, I mean man, this is like like oh, she had like a. She was a young woman and this guy was trying to lure her.
Speaker 2:She was built like a Morgana the kissing bandit that's right hey guys, can you wrap it up? Hey man, we're not even halfway done here. Jesus Christ man, it must be Taco Tuesday, it must be. You're right, you don't want those shells getting cold. Well, this is going to have to be two. I guess so, because there's still so much to unwrap with this. Obviously it has to be two, but man, we're getting deep here A lot of discussion Something strange is afoot, definitely.
Speaker 1:So right now we're at the point Andrea Bowman's missing and there's some suspicion around the father and the mother and the mother.
Speaker 3:And there's her biological mother, who never met her daughter looking for her. Her biological didn't bother her. She's bothering though. Yeah, that's what's causing the, that's that's stirring up the bees, that's the hive is a movement.
Speaker 2:There's a.
Speaker 2:I'm sure we'll get into this at some point when we get back, but I I don't know if I'm into this, I'm just not like it's, it's weird, right, like, look, I, I applaud anyone and I mean anyone who does like cobleman, you know, armchair sleuthing, all of that shit. But this lady now making it a mission to find this, this, this kid that she gave up, right, and it's well, you know what, fuck it. I'm going to now inject myself back into her life, now that, well, now I'm retired and now I have time to work on this, or now I can do it, now I'll give a shit after I've lived my life without any more kids, right, you know what? Fuck it. And now I'm going to try to fuck up somebody else's life.
Speaker 3:Or, like you said, trying to give the people that have legally adopted her a bad name or trying to screw their lives up just because the daughter went missing. We're trying to blame them for something that may or may not be anything they had to do with.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we don't know at this point yet. Is it were they, uh, were they bad people or not? You know, what I mean. So I guess, I guess we'll find out. But this is a good one, man, a juicy one.
Speaker 2:It's juicy.
Speaker 1:We hope you're enjoying the podcast.
Speaker 3:You guys got anything else where we go into part two next week. No, I mean, look we, we got find Dave on a milk cart.
Speaker 1:Yeah, his guide is Copelman. Look at me up. So don't forget to find us on Facebook and Instagram at Old Dirty Basement. Leave us a five-star rating on Spotify and Apple, like we ask. Written review would help, Like we ask Every time. So I guess that's it for now, so we'll catch you where.
Speaker 3:On the flip side If we don't see you sooner. Thanks for hanging out in the old, dirty basement. If you dig our theme music, like we do, check out the tsunami experiment, find them on facebook.
Speaker 1:Their music is available streaming on spotify and apple and where great music is available you can find us at old dirty basement on facebook and instagram and at old dirty basement podcast on tcast on TikTok Peace. We outie 5,000.