Ol' Dirty Basement: True Crime and Vintage Movie Reviews
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Ol' Dirty Basement: True Crime and Vintage Movie Reviews
The Disappearance of Aundria Bowman Part 2
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Did you ever wonder how a seemingly typical family life could hide such sinister secrets? Explore the gripping tale of Aundria Bowman's mysterious disappearance from her adoptive home, a story shrouded in deception and startling revelations. We journey through Aundria's life, adopted by Dennis and Brenda Bowman, and the trail of her supposed sightings. Encounter the curious involvement of amateur sleuths, including a false lead from a DNA test, sparking more questions than answers. With a mix of humor and analysis, we seek to untangle the web surrounding Aundria's fate.
In a twist of fate, two cold case investigators cross paths, igniting fresh insights into their respective mysteries. The intrigue deepens with peculiar evidence—a mysterious burn mark and a charred Lincoln Log—leading to speculation about Dennis's involvement. Join us as we unravel these cold case threads, driven by the charisma of these dedicated investigators.
Lastly, uncover the chilling confession of Dennis Bowman, shedding light on Aundria's tragic end after decades of uncertainty. Dennis's disturbing account of accidental death, dismemberment, and cover-up challenges our perceptions of guilt and justice. Reflect on the complex narratives of adoption, crime, and loyalty, as we discuss media portrayals and their impact on public perception. This episode promises a nuanced exploration of human nature, peppered with moments of levity amidst the darkness of true crime.
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Thanks for tuning in to the Old Dirty Basement On this week's episode. We're covering part two of the Disappearance of Andrea Bowman Indeed the continuing story.
Speaker 2:Who knows, Will they find her?
Speaker 3:Tarkanian Bowman. What's going to happen?
Speaker 1:Yeah, let's find out. We hope you're enjoying the podcast and, if you are, leave us a five-star rating on Spotify, on Apple, a written review, and sit back, relax and enjoy part two of the Disappearance of Andrea Bowman.
Speaker 5:This is the old, dirty basement Home to debauchery, madness, murder and mayhem. A terror-filled train ride deep into the depths of the devil's den.
Speaker 1:With a little bit of humor.
Speaker 2:History and copious consciousness.
Speaker 5:I'm your announcer, shallow Throat. Your hosts are Dave, matt and Zap. I love you, matthew McConaughey, all right all right, all right, hey this is Dave, matt and Zap, and welcome to the old, dirty basement.
Speaker 1:Where every week we cover a true crime.
Speaker 3:Murder or compelling story. So sit back, relax and comprehend and comprehend back, relax and comprehend. Hello everyone, and welcome back to another exciting edition of the old dirty basement. I am matt with me always is dave and zap. Good uh morning, gentlemen. Good morning, hey. Good morning. Beautiful uh early november day out there yes, it is, and the leaves are changing. It's been.
Speaker 2:It was 80 something degrees yesterday that doesn't make a lick of sense, man. I don't understand how the fuck that happened how was it 80 degrees on halloween?
Speaker 3:yeah, well, like you saw these kids like taking their costumes off, running around, like their heads on their, their masks are up over their heads. It was hot, it was warm they had.
Speaker 1:Uh, the big one this year is the inflatable dinosaurs that you like. Get inside. Oh yeah, and the kids, like everyone that I saw, they were out of it by you know, half half off, couldn't deal with the heat, but this is a hot one today, yeah yeah. Disappearance of Andrea Bowman. We got to wrap this up. Part two. Part two. So, usually we we record these back break, which is maybe good.
Speaker 2:We had time to reflect yeah, I get to sit on it, think on it, you know, let it soak in right, like soaking right and pretty much yeah, that's, yeah.
Speaker 3:That might be the definition of soaking.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it might be better suited for uh, kingpin, yeah right, in the amish country that's and that's a mormon thing. Oh shit, that's right, it's mormon it's not amish that's right what the mormons soak themselves.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you don't know what that is. They soak with each other. No, Come on, man, you gotta look it up.
Speaker 2:No, what is soaking? After the episode, consult your local internet on soaking, soaking, okay.
Speaker 3:Yes, definitely. Is it like milking? No, no, no Soaking. Just soaking Dude, you'll get to it. Is it like moist?
Speaker 1:Sometimes it's like something you will discard.
Speaker 2:All right, I'll look it up it might blow your mind.
Speaker 3:Why do I feel naive right now?
Speaker 2:You're not, you're fine. Look man, we're old men now, dude, we would know all of this stuff if we were kids, but it just dribbles in. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm just getting into some of the dialect now, like the riz, the hip stuff, yeah, yeah yeah, but uh, this one today we're going to finish up part two of andrea bowman, hopefully part two, maybe part three.
Speaker 3:I doubt it though part seven of the andrea bowman, that's a lot of milking right there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, too much milking, so I guess, uh, do we want to go back to want a quick little recap just revisit what we went over so far yeah, so so far? Uh, we started with a lady named Kathy Turkanian hippie ended up getting preggers, gave her child up for adoption. Her kid was adopted by Dennis and Brenda Bowman. So Dennis and Brenda Bowman adopted Andrea I should say renamed her Andrea.
Speaker 2:Everything's going swimmingly. Eventually, like any other kid, she's going to become a bit of a problem child. You know those teenage angst years. You know some trouble in school, this, that or the other thing. One day, march 11th 1989, andrea went missing, just went missing, right Did she run away? Did?
Speaker 3:she get kidnapped. I mean, well, the other thing that they said run away. She was like seen in other other parts of town or different states.
Speaker 2:She was, she was out there reports came in from far and wide saying, hey, I saw her here, I saw her there, I see her everywhere. It's like dr seuss it is just like dr seuss, but it's the the case of the missing andrea bowman, where'd she go?
Speaker 2:so again, there were sightings of her. There was all kinds of stuff. Years would go by. Eventually, I think they found a dead woman, the carcass of a dead woman. There was an armchair sleuth, that was. I guess he was into finding or solving these mysteries Like who are these people gone missing?
Speaker 3:Where are they now? What's?
Speaker 2:going on.
Speaker 1:No, it was the carcass of a dead woman like a rob zombie album. Yeah, I think that is carcass of a dead woman.
Speaker 2:Yeah, dragula, so, yeah, so, armchair sleuth. He ends up, uh, yeah, uh, the thinking that this, this dead woman, is actually the the missing Andrea Bowman. So they call in this Kathy Turkanian out of nowhere. We're talking decades later saying, hey man, we want to do a DNA test on you. We think we found your dead spawn Again. That she had given up for adoption years and years ago. Turns out it wasn't her, like Shaggy, it wasn't me.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 2:So all right, that's. That's all right with the world, but this kathy turkanian comes to find. Well, wait a second, if, if, my birth daughter is missing, well, where the hell is she? What happened? Yeah, what happened? So, as time goes on, we learn a little bit more about the parents, the, the adopted parents. Adopting parents, I should say, uh, dennis and brenda.
Speaker 2:As it turns out, dennis had a bit of a troubled past uh he in 1980, when andre was only five or six years old, dennis pleaded guilty to assault with intent to commit sexual misconduct after he tried to lure a teenage girl into the woods outside. He was in for five years and Andre was 11 years old when he was released. And then in now, this is way, way, way. After the fact, in 1998, this is long after Andre had disappeared Dennis was arrested for B&E for breaking into a co-worker's home to steal her panties.
Speaker 3:B&E. I thought that was like that like, like sodomy or whatever. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's that, that uh chains and whips and stuff yeah.
Speaker 3:BDSM yes.
Speaker 2:Not to be confused with ASMR.
Speaker 1:No, no and soaking and soaking. So this is just a a testament to the power of the internet and how that can change whole investigations and everything. And I think we got into the discussion at the end of the episode. It's been what two weeks now, but about adoption and like if you're an adoptive parent and you get into trouble or you have like trouble with the law or something like that, if it should affect your custody.
Speaker 2:Right and the answer is no chance.
Speaker 1:No chance because you're you're the parent, you're the parent.
Speaker 2:You're acting as if you are. It's like that kid is is your own and, in fact, that kid is your own.
Speaker 3:Yes, Legally, it is your own. Yes, yeah, At this point that's where we're at kind of harassing. Well, just yeah, this tarkanian lady would not leave these people alone, and she said she had a suspicion like a leaking suspicion it was driving her nuts.
Speaker 1:Mother's intuition, right yeah?
Speaker 3:and she was like something's wrong, something's not adding up and, like I said, all these people online, these armchair detectives, yeah, and they were just feeding her like these different, different things and yep oh, there's one thing that we want to remind everyone.
Speaker 2:So when Dennis was arrested in 1980 for the assault with intent to commit sexy misconduct, he had to actually miss his arraignment because he was in Norfolk, virginia, at the time, for a two-week military drill. I believe we had asked our listeners to remember that Foreshadow. But just in case you didn't, there it is again. Yes.
Speaker 2:So, all right, let's dive in, shall we? All right? Well, back in 1980, 25 year old Kathleen Doyle was found raped and murdered in her home in Norfolk, Virginia. Now this is the same place Dennis had been when he'd missed his arraignment for the 1980 case that landed him in prison for five years.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the Navy base was right there, that's right.
Speaker 2:That's right. Advances in DNA testing had made the break in the Kathleen Doyle case. Possible Investigators were able to build a DNA profile from semen found on Kathleen's bedspread at the crime scene. Using genealogy matching, they compiled a list of 31 names who were possible matches, and Dennis Bowman was number 31 on that list. It's like 31 flavors.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's crazy how DNA lasts so long like that.
Speaker 3:Dude. Yeah, once they get that schmear Jurassic Park, bro, they put it away in a plastic bag and that's it, it's Jurassic.
Speaker 1:It just amazes me, though, like how something from so long and that's I mean I've heard of cases where it was even further back and they extract DNA Now is this something where they just hold on to evidence and then they go in and look for DNA?
Speaker 3:Or did they know back in the day, like, oh's uh material here that might be useful in the future? Well, no, they were experimenting with that stuff back in, you know how like they have vcrs from like 1930.
Speaker 1:Well, I get it like that yeah, true, I get it like in the 80s maybe, but let's say like they had dna from like I think they came up in the ripper case yeah, they hold on to the blood samples.
Speaker 3:Any, any kind of like semen, any kind of fluids. I think yeah, just to have in I gotta believe they keep.
Speaker 2:I don't want to say keepsakes per se, but if you find a bedspread that has this stain on it and that this is a crime that still remains unsolved or yet to be solved, you just throw all this stuff into, you know, like a tupperware bin, and it just sits there waiting to get you know tossed again.
Speaker 1:Look that. So yeah, I was just wondering about that. I was thinking about that on even older cases where DNA was not really probably even known yet. I mean, I wonder how far back that goes that they knew, like, hey, at some point we might be able to do something with this, but it just. You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:When they would go and touch something like on the ground, they put it in their mouth. Oh, look at her, shane, yeah that?
Speaker 1:Hey, that's not whipped cream.
Speaker 3:No, something like that.
Speaker 2:No, it's not.
Speaker 3:Like hey, bill, bill, hey, hey, test this. Like nope, nope, not whipped cream sir.
Speaker 1:What was she doing with?
Speaker 2:Greek yogurt in the bed.
Speaker 3:That doesn't make any sense that's an odd snack fetish. That's why we promote safe sex here in the basement. Wrap it up.
Speaker 1:That's right. So they had found this DNA and they kind of ran it through one of those ancestry data bit databases. Is that what it was?
Speaker 3:Yep, and again this thing has been ruining people's lives and helping people.
Speaker 2:It's true. Are you talking like 23 and me shit? Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's 100% ruining people's lives.
Speaker 3:Wait, hey dad, is it true? I have a brother. Yeah, no, what? Look online.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we got into a discussion with my wife and I was talking about cause we had brought that up on the last episode and I said about how, looking at the negative aspects of that of going on to one of those sites, yeah, and I never really took that angle, but when we were talking about it I'm like, yeah, that's true, like you could dig up some skeletons, and not necessarily you, but like a relative or something.
Speaker 3:Not necessarily you, but like a relative or something True. True story I just met my cousin for the first time at my family reunion. Oh, for real. Yes, and it was through. Yeah, my uncle, I guess, had a kid and never, never knew about the kid. And then on the on our, what was that called? Not 23andMe? What's the other one?
Speaker 1:Ancestrycom.
Speaker 3:Which I was on, my cousin called me. He's like does this name keep popping up on yours His first cousin? And I was like, yeah, yeah, and there it was Dude that's so messed up. Yeah, so this girl, you know, contacts my cousin Nathan. He contacts her and he's like you know what's this, what's that? And then you happen. You know, everything is is like a big controversy.
Speaker 1:But yeah, uh, my one uncle. Yeah, we have, we have a cousin. She's pretty cool. Congratulations, thanks, man, thanks. Not to mention, like you go back and like great, great great grandfather jebediah dahmer, or something like that, and you find out like you're like oh man, that's a rough one, too related.
Speaker 2:So it's true. Look, yeah, you can have that shit. Man, better keep the mouth swabs to yourself. That's right, man, just let the sleeping dogs lie, just just let it go Move on. Yeah, there's. There's no need for that shit. There's no. What's? What are you solving? What are you doing?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean I benefit for them, solve the crime that's great that's what it's out there for pretty much
Speaker 2:well, in a stroke of either good karma or just plain luck, while at a police conference in norfolk, the virginia police investigator assigned to the kathleen doyle case randomly met the michigan state police detective assigned to the andrea bowman disappearance. The two exchanged notes and dennis bowman became suspect number one, with Dennis now in the crosshairs of Virginia and Michigan State Police as a suspect in the 1980 rape and murder of Kathleen Doyle. Michigan State Police had a plan. They needed Dennis' DNA to prove that it matched that of the semen found on the bedspread at Kathleen's murder scene. How did they get his DNA? They got to nail this down completely. They have to. This has to be 100% right on.
Speaker 1:I'll get his sample now. Right, right, right.
Speaker 2:They're like look man, we found this stain on uh the bedspread yeah. What was it On Monica Lewinsky's dress? And now we got to match your DNA to this.
Speaker 1:That's exactly right. I have a question, though did you watch the documentary I don't know if you remember this on Bill Clinton, that one too, but that was awesome.
Speaker 2:By the way, I didn't get to see that. Oh, dude, it was so good is that on? Netflix.
Speaker 3:It was on FX was it like a real, like a show shit, yeah, it was like a four or five part show, dude, it was awesome.
Speaker 2:They did one on OJ too, where cuba gooding jr played. Oj, yeah, yeah so this one they did uh, they did one on uh bill clinton who played monica lewinsky?
Speaker 3:I don't know some fat chick she's pretty hot right now, like if you look at dude, I always thought she was good looking yeah, I don't think, bill. I don't think he struck out with that one. No, him and his bent ass junk he did not have sex with her, though monica lewinsky no, he did not have.
Speaker 2:No, he only got blow jobs.
Speaker 1:Yes, so back to this case it's like signing my autographs I know, right, that's his, that's a signature move, jesus christ. So in the documentary they had referenced in the, they went through the crime scene of the house and it was like a little Cape Cod house and the one friend of hers was there the night before.
Speaker 2:And this is Kathleen Doyle. This is Kathleen Doyle's house Dead and raped woman from Norfolk Virginia Correct Okay.
Speaker 3:In 1980.
Speaker 1:Yeah, was she the one she was having a wine and stuff with her friend, with her friend and all that and the next day the friend couldn't get a hold of her, got concerned, sent her husband and her, went over and she walked in like, pushed the door open and went through the crime scene basically. But they referenced there was a burn mark on Kathleen's face in the shape of like they said it could have been a cigar or a Lincoln log. And they found the charred lincoln log at the scene.
Speaker 2:they had no kids so why would there be a?
Speaker 1:why would there be a lincoln log? So I'm wondering if what would have dennis had a lincoln log with him? Like you know, like as a parent, you're cleaning up and maybe like in the back of your car or something right why, like I was, they never went back to they never touched on that.
Speaker 3:yeah, I remember them talking about it, but why would you? Burn a Lincoln Log.
Speaker 2:Why would you even have a Lincoln Log?
Speaker 3:I'm pretty sure it was a cigar.
Speaker 1:Well no, there was a charred Lincoln Log that they said they initially thought it was like somebody took a cigar and put it out on her face. But they found a Lincoln log A charred Lincoln log that was burning one end.
Speaker 3:So are they trying to like maybe say it was torture, some sort of torture? He was like maybe lighting the Lincoln log and burning her face with it or scaring her with it.
Speaker 1:It was definitely like a sadistic killing, they said it was. He stabbed her a bunch of times and like it was not something where, like somebody had did this before, like we always talk about. You just don't commit a crime like this, like once, right, so that's the thing Like these.
Speaker 2:So these two officers, this, this guy from there's the guy investigating the long, long standing case of the dead Kathleen Doyle yes, and then there's this other guy from a completely different state in Michigan who's now investigating this long, long long outstanding disappearance of.
Speaker 3:Andre Bowman and the Kathleen Doyle. That was pretty much a shell, what they call the cold case type thing, when they got a guy working on 150 cold cases.
Speaker 2:I think it's serendipitous as hell, though, that these two just happened to meet at a fucking conference. Just by chance, just by chance, like they're standing by the coffee and and donuts.
Speaker 3:I don't think it was by chance, it's for for a reason well, that john smith, that's the guy's name from norfolk okay and he was cool as shit man.
Speaker 1:Like he met matt and I were talking about it. Like this guy was the glasses, like he just kept changing his glasses out like stylish glasses and stuff. But he had referenced that how you said about being lucky. Like he's like I'm the most unlucky dude on the planet. He's like if, if there's like a thunderstorm, I'm under it and this and that. And he said, by chance, I meet this guy at a conference and we're putting our notes together. So what are the chances?
Speaker 3:this guy's smooth, though, like he'd be one of them guys.
Speaker 1:It's like like an underground murderer type dude you know like I think he could get away with anything yeah, this guy was pretty cool, like pretty suave, looking like a record executive or something yeah yeah, you know. But yeah, that is crazy that they happen to just come across at a conference yep, and they both basically determine like oh, dennis yeah, this, this is the guy.
Speaker 2:This is the guy I think we're both looking for the same guy but back to that lincoln log.
Speaker 1:I'm wondering if that ties to dennis in some way. If he happened to have it, like you clean up after your kids, I'd do it not, but he wasn't.
Speaker 3:He wasn't with the kids at the time that's what I'm saying. But maybe he had like a pair of jeans and, like he was, they were like it was in his pocket from back home or maybe even he was like looking at other places and maybe, like you know, spying on kids, or, and maybe you know, I don't know, that's weird or was that like a daycare center or something.
Speaker 1:I had lincoln logs I think we all, we all did. It was a common toy, but yeah, just they, they referenced it like it was going to be a big part of like oh, let's just let it go and then they let it go and it seems like the dna is like the. Well, obviously that's the concrete thing.
Speaker 2:This is yet another reason why I tend to not rely on netflix shows. Yeah, I just don't. We've seen this before. We saw it with tmi. You're gonna see it with the menendez brothers, right. There's just going to be a slant. Everybody has a a slant, or some kind of bias that they want to put forth you think they're trying to sell lincoln logs?
Speaker 1:yeah, they're coming marketing.
Speaker 2:These sons of bitches are trying to sell lincoln logs you're anti-netflix yeah, don't think of it as anti-netflix. It's again, it's the idea is.
Speaker 3:That's all about just the facts on the internet yeah, dude look it's the same as netflix I just want facts.
Speaker 2:I just want facts, but if I can, everything you read is true look, if I can corroborate it back and forth between a number of different sources, then I'm good the the idea of when you put forth a show like again a netflix series, I don't care, amazon hulu yeah, any of them.
Speaker 2:You're. You're trying to draw people in right like you're trying, you're making it a show. You're making it a narrative, you're making it suspenseful, you're making some kind of something and you're trying to push some kind of angle, like even in this and I watched the netflix- thing, right I I did not like some of the angles that were taken in that show, like not at all.
Speaker 1:They can definitely edit it to make it a certain way and I totally agree with you on that. But I do not agree that when you have the actual detectives and people involved right that are being interviewed, I mean I think that's valuable, sure information when you're 100 at a case, now I get what you're saying, like, for instance, we were talking about the menendez that's out right now, it's hot, it's a reenactment, right.
Speaker 1:Like how do you take that and use that as like oh, I know the case now, right, you know, I mean what?
Speaker 3:what are the differences in that like that, uh, that this is more of like a the documentary, but they do have like the filler in between where they show what zap's talking about, where they play the uh intense music and they're building up to uh like with a certain scene, but then they go to the actual people, they go to the, the, cops.
Speaker 2:Or look at what we watched for that history channel thing for the killdozer. Well, killdozer, or the north hollywood murders, yes, the north hollywood shooting spree, right like that.
Speaker 1:That's a cool thing where they actual footage yeah bringing the actual factual yeah, I enjoy those, the ones where it's like the actual people involved. You get to see put a name to the face you know what I mean and you get to hear their account of what happened. Could they edit it and like rework? You know, I'm sure they can edit and cut it and make it whatever they want. Yeah, but I see what you're saying about that.
Speaker 1:I don't personally like reenactments because I feel like that's a director taking liberty sure I'm gonna we're gonna slant this this way I thought the dahmer one was pretty good.
Speaker 2:As far as reenactments go, I mean, that was, that was like, that was just a movie. It's a movie, yeah was good.
Speaker 1:But when you went through all the research on that, I feel like they tied it together pretty well. It was pretty damn close. But yeah, I don't understand that part. I was just curious, if you came across anything on that, on the Lincoln Law, why that even came up.
Speaker 3:I think they did reference it to more of the sadistic part you were talking about, to more uh, he was painting him he was like messing with his prey. He was like you know, picking up what you're hurting it, or it might have been lighting it and then, like you know, scaring her with it. Who knows?
Speaker 2:it's like they weren't there. What's the? The mcdommer effect, where you, the triad, the triad, the mcdommer triad, and so one of them is torturing animals when you're a kid. Maybe this weirdo dude with the or whomever with the lincoln log was just into torturing his prey, like matt had said yeah, it's just not your standard break and entering and murder and no, it's like but the um the zodiac is on now, I think on netflix, and that's done very well.
Speaker 3:Uh, if it's, it's more, it's one of those things where they're talking to the people directly or the people that were involved. It's not one of the. There's really no reenactments or anything in it. It's just talking to the detectives, the people involved. It's a good one. Yeah. This is a.
Speaker 2:Zodiac sign. In the years following her discovery of Dennis Bowman's checkered past, Kathy Turkanian remained confident that he had anything and everything to do with Andrea's disappearance. She harassed the Bowmans via social media. She engaged in constant threatening and harassing phone calls, and she even went so far as to post signs near their house offering an $11,000 reward for any leads uncovering who was responsible for Andrea's disappearance. Dennis and Brenda Bowman had had enough of Kathy Turkanian's harassing. They made their way to the county sheriff's office to air their complaints. While there, Dennis drank his fair share of water in between his rants about Kathy Turkanian. And when the Bowmans departed the sheriff's office, police swiftly took the cup Dennis had been using and lifted a DNA sample. Results concluded that the DNA Dennis Bowman left on the cup at the sheriff's office was a 100% match to the DNA found within the semen on Kathleen Doyle's bedspread. Mind blown, yeah.
Speaker 1:So with that DNA, like I've heard of cases where they get it from trash and stuff like that. Like like you know, somebody is out in public and they're drinking out of a cup and then they'll throw it in the trash and stuff like that. Like like you know somebody's out in public and they're drinking out of a cup and then they'll throw it in the trash and walk away, and then they'll go up and grab it like I wonder yeah, I wonder what the rule is on that, though.
Speaker 1:I mean, obviously I've I'm pretty sure I've seen that done, but if you have to actually see the person, I think trash is trash anything that the person left behind or throw you're able to use anything yeah from that pretty much, I believe but I see where you're going, dave, it's.
Speaker 2:It's. If you find something on the ground, who's to say that some other bum didn't, you know, sip out of it or lick it or do whatever he might have done with it? Right put his own semen in that cup, who knows.
Speaker 3:But can't the cop just come and ask for a for?
Speaker 2:a sample. So it is interesting in actually within the commonwealth of virginia. Let's say you're, you're pulled over right for, you're suspected for dui.
Speaker 2:They cannot forcibly take blood from you, yeah, so but I think the law is then you, they would say you refuse, and they bust you anyway so the the thing in virginia if you get, if you get yanked for aI, the trick every time is just to say nothing, spend a night in jail and wake up the next morning and then then say, okay, now I'm willing to take that test or whatever, and you're, that's wild.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I heard that you throw your keys out the car.
Speaker 2:I've heard that. I've heard that you make four left turns. That one too.
Speaker 3:Where did that come from? I've heard that one. Yeah, the cops are like nah, this guy's all right.
Speaker 1:That was debunked. That's right.
Speaker 2:So yeah, when I mentioned that thing about they can't forcibly take your blood, I mean so that is a law in Virginia, pennsylvania, completely different. If you refuse to let them take your blood, you are 100% guilty Versus.
Speaker 3:Virginia, that's not the the case. It's absolutely not the case. No, but I don't know why they tried to play slick with getting his his mouth on the water or his mouth on the cup. I'm pretty sure because all they could. All they had to do was say you're um a suspect. Uh, here's a search warrant.
Speaker 2:We need a hair follicle we need your dna that circles back to my, my whole statement about the virginia thing.
Speaker 1:I don't think they could have forced him to give.
Speaker 2:They could not have compelled him to give his DNA or to give any kind of sample or anything like that. They had to basically trick it out of him, and that is get him, and only him, to use this cup.
Speaker 3:See, I would think the tricking out of would be more of a crime or more of something that, because then you don't know if that was exactly his DNA.
Speaker 2:I mean, it could have been lost in the mix You've got three and four cops that are there that can certainly say look, he's the only one, yes, I testify, he's the only one here that's drank out of this cup. It's absolutely been him that's been drinking out of this cup the whole time.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean that would hold up in court. Yeah, I get what you're saying, but it's still, I don't know, shifty, shifty.
Speaker 2:Shifty and shady.
Speaker 3:Which I mean cops. They're good at that. I mean that's part of their job. Hell yeah, I mean they learn stuff like that.
Speaker 2:For sure Look, next time I have a drink with Officer Vince.
Speaker 3:I my cup with me.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, for real. Just in case, let me get these prints with a piece of scotch tape. So yeah, this, uh, the the dna thing is one thing, but in the meantime, this kathy turkany is just harassing the shit out of this couple. I mean harassing the hell out of them. And I gotta wonder it's you know. At one point you know I get it. So they these two finally went to the cops and said look man, this lady is just harassing the shit about. She's calling us day and night. She's posting these signs offering rewards. Like what the fuck? Like you know what's this lady's fucking problem? She gave up her kid a long time ago.
Speaker 3:Get the hell out of our lives well, she was checking out, checking out their house on google maps she was, she was flying, she was a stalker bro yeah, yeah, but she was flying those um drones over top of the house. She was in the front yard.
Speaker 1:They would sit there right outside of her of the the bowman's house just get launched and sit across the road, yeah, and just stare at them well, they took road trips her and I guess it was her husband at the time, I don't know to every location the bowman's ever lived or were at and they would scout the properties and it was. It was like way over the top. She put a lot of time in trying to pin something on them.
Speaker 2:This woman needs a goddamn job Anyway.
Speaker 3:I think she was like retired something. She was something Nurse or teacher, I don't know.
Speaker 1:Basketball coach.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, after all that DNA matching and all that good stuff, in November 2019, dennis Bowman was arrested for the nearly 40-year-old case of Kathleen Doyle's rape, strangulation and murder. Note Kathleen had been stabbed multiple times, her hands had been tied, she'd been gagged with a pair of leotards, an electrical cord had been wrapped around her neck, bruises had been found all over her body and, of course, she'd been raped. In the weeks that followed, the Virginia investigator assigned to Kathleen Doyle's case inevitably got Dennis to tell his story, the story of a drunken mistake that placed him in the house and had him stabbing her. So this guy, dennis dude, he tells the. Okay, yeah, sure, I guess I was at her house the night of, but the night she was killed. But I didn't do it, I was just drunk. I just stumbled into her house and then I got out.
Speaker 1:She pushed me, she pushed me and I got out Drinking bourbons and Coke at the local bar. He said the way this guy got it out of him was like pretty impressive, this John Smith yeah, that's a smooth, he's a smooth, cat smooth. He went in like they have the actual interrogation videos which don't come off like that, because he goes in and he's like, instead of saying I'm detective john smith, you know with norfolk, virginia police or whatever, he's like I'm john smith, how are you? You know, and he gets, becomes friends with him.
Speaker 3:Hey man, I'm john. Yeah, he would like take his tie down. He would take his jacket. Jacket off, jacket off. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And he's like can I get you something? You know, what do you want to eat? This food in here they're giving you is no good. Like what can I get you? And he's like I want coffee black, I want almonds unsalted. He was very specific, this Dennis Bowman, about what he wanted and this guy anything he wanted he'd bring it like I'm gonna become friends with you.
Speaker 1:And it worked because he showed matt and I were just talking about it. Before we came down they showed they had video on them the whole time. This dennis bowman's on the phone with his wife like an idiot. He's like they're doing anything I want yeah anything.
Speaker 3:I tell them to this guy's great, yeah, they're eating out of my hands like they.
Speaker 1:They don't, they don't suspect the thing and all this other stuff and so he was breaking him down to the point that he's going to talk, sure, and that was great to see that, like it actually worked that makes sense like they're.
Speaker 2:They're talking together, like they're old friends yeah but it's, it's.
Speaker 3:It kind of shows you sometimes like how dumb criminals or people that commit these things really are man shit because like the guy's, like you know, say something.
Speaker 3:He's like you know, there's times and bowman will say like he's hurt, he has hurt feelings about something. The guy'll be like yeah, I feel the exact same way, just why don't you tell me about that? And the guy, like you know, just starts spewing. And then he's like you know what I hate? And the guy's like no, what do you hate? He's like you know, I hate so. And so the guy's like yeah, me too. That really, you know, gets my goat. Yeah, and he just agrees with everything. Me too, me too. Man, tell me, tell me more about it.
Speaker 1:It reminds me of this guy too. It keeps coming up in my like tiktok and instagram reels and all this. This guy goes in and breaks down dogs that are like aggressive and uh, he'll go into, like uh, you know, humane society or and his dogs and they're like don't go near the dog, it's aggressive. He'll go and like sit down and like face away from the dog and like slowly feed it treats and break it down until the dog likes him. Then and it takes like sometimes a couple trips.
Speaker 1:You know, sometimes we'll do it all in one session, but you have this troubled animal that you just need to kind of like take your time and break them down and get them to trust you and then you know, after a while it it works out. But that's what he had to do with this guy, cause in the initial videos that they showed, dennis Bowman was like kicking the chair, like I don't know what you got to get out of here. You know I don't want to talk to any whatever, and he was very aggressive and they broke him down.
Speaker 2:They broke him down, they gave him treats. They gave him treats and they did Starbucks no salt almonds.
Speaker 1:Yeah, starbucks, they had Chick-fil-A in there, filet in there oh yes, he's getting chick-fil-a.
Speaker 3:He's getting like burger king for breakfast. He's like they just brought me some tots I could tear up some chick-fil-a right now.
Speaker 2:Oh, I love chick, oh I gotta try that new pimento.
Speaker 3:One dude I have not tried. Oh, I love pimento, it is banging.
Speaker 2:Oh, speaking of which, I gotta drop this now, since we're talking about all right, go ahead. I, I, I dove in, I, I gave it a shot. I'd seen enough commercials, I'd seen enough advertisements for it. Do tell, do tell. I did the chicken, big mac, no no good, I heard no, it's fucking terrible I heard that it is so bad it's funny.
Speaker 3:You said that because I saw a commercial and megan, she looks at me, I looked at her. At the same time we're like what the hell is that?
Speaker 2:it's so gnarly dude it's so bad now. Look now. I thought it was a great idea to the extent. Does it have the Big Mac sauce? Look yeah, minus burger, plus chicken. Fried chicken, that's a big chicken nugget. Right, it's a big.
Speaker 3:Two all-beef patties, so it would be two chicken patties special sauce, lettuce cheese, pickles, onions On a sesame seed bun.
Speaker 2:All they did was take two pieces of the that's what otherwise on the McChicken sandwich and they put that in lieu of the burgers. So I'm a big fan of making my own little concoctions out of McDonald's stuff, right? So I'll get a cheeseburger and I'll get a filet of fish, and I'll mash them both together. I'll take the lid off of one and the base off of another and put it together.
Speaker 3:With the tartar.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I'll call that like a land and sea right or a surf and turf. He's like uh the bear, it's like a surf and turf he's like the bear over here, yeah.
Speaker 3:Or that guy that puts the salt on stuff yeah, he's like salt bay, salt bay.
Speaker 2:Look man, I will. I'll definitely tear up some stuff and put it all together, but the I like making the big macs at home.
Speaker 3:That chicken is so fucking bad.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, dude, I would never try that McDonald's get the fuck rid of that.
Speaker 3:That'll last for a week. That'll be like the McRib, which is currently available in select stores. Yes, that's it. That lasted for a little. I did like the McRib, but a lot of people hated it.
Speaker 1:I let it get that. I saw one the other day. They said bring back the cheddar melt.
Speaker 2:Oh.
Speaker 1:I remember that, yeah, cheddar melt it was sauteed onions and cheddar cheese.
Speaker 2:Yes, it was like basically a cheesesteak on a burger.
Speaker 3:I'd like a good tuna melt. Those are delicious. I don't know if that would fly well at McDonald's. No, all right oh.
Speaker 1:Let me guess real quick.
Speaker 2:No not real quick.
Speaker 3:It's never, ever really quick. I got distracted by the chicken Big Mac, so terrible. But when they read you your rights, if you do, or somebody, if the cops ask you for questioning Miranda, yeah, you don't have to say anything. You say nothing, these people hang themselves so many times.
Speaker 2:Let's not forget. You have the right to remain silent.
Speaker 3:Yes, Just say lawyer, and it'll go on. Well, we've seen you at this and we're like oh, have you seen me? You can see me when you call my lawyer. And just keep shutting them down.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Come on, guys, ask them for a McRib. Yeah, ask for a McRib. I don't know. So this dentist dude, so again he's just. Why would you admit, why would you say at all like, again kudos to John Smith, kudos, why would you say even remotely?
Speaker 3:I don't even think that's his real name well, I didn't kill her.
Speaker 2:I didn't kill her, but I did. I was in her house that night after I got drunk and I did kinda well, I accidentally stabbed her then I moved away then I got out of the house, so it obviously somebody must have come in after I was there and continued to stab her like what dude? You're a dumb ass. Yeah, you're just exactly.
Speaker 1:Well, obviously, like, like I said, the way this guy's a fucking moron why would you say that? He has just denied, denied, deny. You've been denying it, but that's, that's I said. This guy broke him down to the point he probably felt comfortable like I can tell him, this guy, I believe, because we're friends and he was like no, I got you, now gotcha. What's that guy? Say that from the wire, got your ass. You ever see that meme?
Speaker 2:no, I've never seen the wire. It's in baltimore I on purpose never watched that that's a rough show. Yeah, I didn't want to know that there was that kind of crime going on less than two hours away from my house.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a great show, though, but they they had that meme of the one, the one black cop, and he's like got your ass and he's pulling the camera up. That's basically how this guy had him. Once he started talking, it was over this guy's.
Speaker 2:There was no way either of them were moving to Virginia just to visit. Investigators devised a clever plan Offer Dennis the possibility of remaining in Michigan if he divulged anything he knew about the true whereabouts of his adopted daughter, Andrea.
Speaker 2:Well it didn't take long for this to sink into Dennis' tortured mind. In early December 2019, dennis requested an in-person visit with his wife. During their conversation, he told his story of what happened to Andrea Bowman more than 30 years earlier, on the night of March 11, 1989. Consistent with his previous testimony, dennis had returned home after having taken his wife to work, but Andrea hadn't run away. She was still at home when he arrived. She was preparing to run away. During a heated exchange, Dennis hit Andrea, causing her to fall down the stairs from the second floor of the house. The fall broke her neck. She died instantly. Fearing imprisonment, dennis reported to police that Andrea had run away. In reality, he'd hidden her body in the barn on their property. Days after the incident, he stuffed her body into a cardboard barrel, having to chop her legs off in order for it to fit, and place the barrel at the curb the next day of her trash collection.
Speaker 1:That's crazy Wow.
Speaker 2:So that's kind of a flip-flop from yeah, I came home and my daughter ran away.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean with these criminals and stuff, and if they've done other shit, I guess, after you get caught for one thing, let's not again.
Speaker 2:This dude had been in prison for five years, right? One thing you don't want to do is go back to fucking prison but at this point, like they got him for the girl in norfolk right, so you're going he's dead to rights.
Speaker 1:He's done. He's done. Like you're old, you're not getting out. So in in his mind, I mean he just wants to be.
Speaker 2:So they they tossed it out to him. They said look, man, you could stay in michigan. Look, the only people that in this whole fucking world who are going to talk to you is your wife and, if you're lucky, your daughter right not the dead one, not the one that's missing.
Speaker 1:Right, she's not talking the one that you had you naturally with with brenda, but his, oh sorry no, I was just gonna say I wonder what the percentage like with people they get caught like that. That don't fess up. They just for pride, like fuck you, I'm not gonna give you anything else. But I would imagine that majority of people were like I'm gonna just start talking because, what benefit is it for me to not talk? You know, I'm going to jail for life. I'm going to the, you know, but getting the death penalty.
Speaker 3:His story here sounds made up. Also if you would think of somebody that that would break into somebody's house. Uh, murder, rape, torture um, the whole thing was falling down the steps that's that sounds so made up. Um, because I remember like we had steps at my house when I was growing up. I don't know how many times I fell down those as a kid, yeah, or even as an adult. If you are a teenager would roll down steps, it's not something. They would break their neck.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean yeah, I mean it's possible, but I'm I wonder what the percentages?
Speaker 3:yeah, that that whole thing sounds made up, so it it was probably some sort of rape, torture. I mean he completely mutilated the body, it wasn't just the legs the guy cut something he cut. He cut her into like pieces after that to try to get her into his barrel, into the barrel. So it was. You know he's like oh, the legs a little too big, let me chop. Chopping the leg down after you cut the legs off, chopping the arms first, I grab them, then I choke them.
Speaker 1:I wonder what you use for that like around that, like I have trouble cutting chicken sometimes, I think he had like a like type of a salsa, or maybe just a hacksaw you guys, like we were talking about that, with these tools and shit so a hacksaw is gonna uh, a hacksaw I think of that would get through the bone.
Speaker 2:That'll get through the bone, but it's gonna take you a long time because those teeth are very fine, that's. That's certainly meant for cutting like a chop saw or like a sawzall or you're gonna want some some decent teeth on that saw, yeah, a chainsaw not necessarily messy, though I guess, yeah, chainsaw be everywhere it needs some kind of serration to it in order to just to really get through that meat. But, yeah, once you get to the bone, maybe a hacksaw, I'm sorry. Yeah, maybe a hacksaw well, think about it.
Speaker 3:Didn't the jack the ripper used um like surgical tools from like the 1900s? Yeah like 1800s.
Speaker 1:He did in from hell for sure, but yeah, like just to think about that.
Speaker 3:But somebody who would do that. I don't think it was. We had an argument at the top of the steps I went to hit her, she wrote down no, I'm sure it was like like rape murder, like or rape torture. I mean, just in this guy's mind there was no way that that. I think he said that just to be nice to his wife, to tell her what really happened thank you for reminding all of us about that.
Speaker 2:Let's not forget and let's keep in the very forefront of our mind. He is telling this story to the only person in the whole world that has defended this man to the bone. She was a whack job. She defended and loved and would do. She would take a bullet for this guy. And now she, he is telling her hey man, yeah, I basically I lied, she didn't run away, I killed our adopted daughter it was an accident, I chopped her fucking legs off and I put her in a fucking barrel yeah, his excuse was like because of my past record I knew I couldn't call the police.
Speaker 1:Shit man you're right.
Speaker 2:You're right.
Speaker 3:I'm sorry I didn't kill our daughter I guess I pushed her down the steps yeah, she fell down the steps when I tried to. That's right.
Speaker 2:It was a little argument on the top of the steps but then, once she was already dead, well then, I chopped her fucking legs off right, because she couldn't fit in the barrel, wasn't you know I?
Speaker 3:I had a, I had a nice chianti and uh, yeah, he was a cigarette and I just can't wrap my fucking dome around that dude.
Speaker 2:How do you what? What kind of person is? Just how does this happen? Like I'm thinking of from both sides, like from the, the wife's side, sitting there hearing this story like god damn.
Speaker 3:But she was. She was like super religious, like very patsy cline, stand by your man type thing, like whatever he told her she's like I'll accept it, like I understand. You know he wasn't, uh, he wasn't helping out with dinner, he wasn't doing anything.
Speaker 1:No, she seems like I'll accept it like I understand you know he wasn't, uh, he wasn't helping out with dinner, he wasn't doing anything no she seems like one of them wise. It's like go sit down in the recliner and I'll bring you know what I mean it wasn't like you, you.
Speaker 2:He had a long day of work, honey. Uh, he's not washing dishes.
Speaker 3:He's not wiping up. But um, yeah she. She seemed very backward, very just into anything.
Speaker 1:This guy told her his excuse was like I I didn't want to break the family up anymore, so I just figured I had to hide this because I'm going, I'd go back to prison. They went by that it was an accident, sure for you listening also.
Speaker 3:Uh, he raised this girl from months old like this was his daughter, correct? Yeah, not like directly from birth, but six, seven months into dude yeah, it's basically his kid.
Speaker 2:That again, it's him and brenna's kid. That's the thing like, look, just because it didn't pop out of her womb doesn't make it any less their, their child that they raised and reared according to her friends, though, and there again it's on you know, netflix and but their interviews with friends.
Speaker 1:Like he was very abusive doing all that.
Speaker 3:So I wonder what sexual abuse before that's yeah, and.
Speaker 1:I wonder what their relationship was the whole time through. Was he just an ass the whole time or did it when she had those teenage years and was rebelling? Maybe or maybe she wasn't, but if she was did he lose his shit, then I thought about that too.
Speaker 2:If we look at the timeline, let's just a quick recap. This chick, andrea Andre was six years old when he went into jail. She was 11 when he came out, so she's five years. So she's just a one. He's in prison five years and I got to believe I mean I. I saw what his wife looks like. I got to believe those conjugal visits weren't so so great.
Speaker 2:So he's. He's in lockdown or lock up for for five years. He comes out and she's just on the verge of getting into her start in puberty or whatever.
Speaker 1:It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that this guy might have had some throbbing urges, urges or whatever, yeah, Carnal throbbing urges, so it's not far out or far fetched? Not at all.
Speaker 2:And so when we think about her and you hear the stories. Well, she was acting out or she was rebelling, or she was having problems with school.
Speaker 3:Maybe it's because he was abusing her. Yeah, he's abusing her, I think. Yeah, physically, sexually touching her parts man, that's yeah mentally like he had her pretty messed up right, yeah yeah, well, as we had mentioned, brenda bowman was devastated.
Speaker 2:She'd spent decades defending and believing in Dennis, all for nothing.
Speaker 1:Like Jets fans.
Speaker 2:Just like Jets fans. Not long after Dennis's revelation to Brenda, his story changed yet again. Within a letter he sent to Brenda, he documented that everything he'd admitted was true, except he didn't throw Andrea's body out with the trash. He instead buried her in a proper grave near a private graveyard. Police searched and searched. Andrea's body could not be found. Prosecutors would not move forward without a body. Brenda, now dennis's only friend in the world, needed to get the truth out of him, and then it happened.
Speaker 2:Not but days later, during a phone call with brenda, dennis, on his own volition, revealed andrea's location. He'd actually buried that cardboard barrel with Andrea's body in it right in their own backyard, and when they relocated to their next house, not long after Andrea went missing, he exhumed the barrel and buried it at their new house. Police acted quickly and, sure enough, after careful excavation, they discovered remains of andrea bowman. In february 2020. Her body had been chopped up and separated into four bags. The bags have been placed in the cardboard barrel along with dozens of dirty diapers to mask the smell and ward off any would-be cadaver dogs yeah, because they actually sent out cadaver dogs and uh earlier times, yeah, and they didn't find anything, and that was from so fucked up.
Speaker 3:Well, the mom tarkanian her actual mom was the one saying there's something in that backyard there was vegetation that would grow weird like around it.
Speaker 1:This area was always changing, interesting, and she pushed the cops to do it a couple times there's something weird.
Speaker 2:This is with the drones and the google map east.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that was all her own, but she was telling them this months ahead of time that there's something in his backyard. I need you guys to check that out, that something's not right. And the cops did. They got the, the cadaver, the cadaver dogs and all these other things. They looked around. They're like, look, there's nothing here, lady, like I don't know what we got to leave these people alone move along yeah, so so far this guy has three different stories just of the body alone he's switching it up.
Speaker 1:Well, he said something nice first he threw it away.
Speaker 2:First he said fuck it, I just put it down with the trash. He took the trash guys took it two. Well, I, I put her in a proper grave again. After I chopped her the fuck up, I put her in a proper grave, I wrapped her in a nice you know cloth and put flowers around her flowers and cloves and bullshit and spices and oh, she looked so beautiful and blah, blah, blah right, and then, third, fuck it.
Speaker 2:The real truth is I buried her in our backyard and then, when we moved, I I dug her with us, brought her the fuck with us. I'm moving around jesus christ.
Speaker 3:But I think his wife did say that she's like what are you talking about? We moved since then like there's no way. She's in the backyard, you're, you're crazy. And the guy's like, well, I, I loaded it up with the rest of the stuff we were moving.
Speaker 2:You're goddamn right. I'm crazy.
Speaker 1:I dug up the fucking barrel and I brought her with me as those investigators were searching through the barrel and they found the diapers. They also found which was eerie it was like a york peppermint patty wrapper and on it it was like manufactured 1989 I hate those goddamn things. Oh, I love them I can't throw them in the freezer well, again too.
Speaker 3:What's eerie about that york peppermint patty is the guy was sitting there doing this shit while he was enjoying, like we said, like like having a peppermint patty and uh right, probably listening to something on the radio some yacht rock it's crazy, man dude.
Speaker 2:It's like, uh I, I hear this story about this guy eating this candy while he's chopping up his daughter's fucking body, jesus but this is yeah, this is his daughter and he's putting her pieces in dirty soil bags, diapers, but I'm reminded of the mute guy from uh, gone in 60 seconds sway, I think, is it sway in the morning.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sway in the morning, no. So he was. He worked in the coroner's office and he's sitting there eating a sandwich in the coroner's office when he gets a call from nicholas cage I don't remember if he puts it on the dead guy, just right on his stomach, and then just goes take the call like no big deal.
Speaker 3:Yeah, they show that like movies with corners or whatever. They're sitting there enjoying a sandwich.
Speaker 1:Well, that's at Roy DeMeo. That guy, you covered years it has been years ago.
Speaker 3:It's three years ago.
Speaker 1:We did a special or a special an episode on Roy DeMeo, the Gemini method. He was a mob dude and they were saying he was the expert at disposing of bodies and he would be. They'd have these bodies hanging in the bathtub and matt, I remember I wrote it up and he was saying how he they'd cut him up and he'd be eating a sandwich in one hand and like cutting somebody's leg off of the other, like like wiping the blood off, like no big deal.
Speaker 3:Some people just wire differently yeah, like he would have, like other people were trying to do it with gloves, like staying away, putting like mats on. Yeah, yeah, the guys like sitting there eating, uh, eating some sausage desensitized to it, to the point like it doesn't bother me was it intentional that this dude, that this crazy ass piece of shit, put that york peppermint patty wrapper in there?
Speaker 1:was it like a time capsule.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's what I'm thinking, maybe maybe he was just sitting there enjoying a york peppermint patty.
Speaker 1:It's possible maybe I'm looking too far into yeah, you're diving or maybe it's a like maybe he was saying like kind of saying like it's trash.
Speaker 2:Oh, that reminds me, that's right, let's not?
Speaker 3:forget. You guys are getting way too into this. Well, no, it's true, it is trash.
Speaker 2:It is trash Because not only did he do that, he threw out a couple dozen dirty, shitty diapers in the barrel of his chopped up daughter's fucking body.
Speaker 1:You're basically like, basically comparing her to trash.
Speaker 3:Basically, yeah, saying that. But who thinks of that, though? Because they brought those dogs in? How was he even thinking at the time oh, I got all these shitty diapers from my younger daughter.
Speaker 2:I think it was the smell that was before the internet.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's what I mean. How did he figure that out, I guess? So the dogs smell shit, that's right.
Speaker 2:Diaper. The power of the shit was is going to overpower the smell of the rotting corpse Shit power. Well, that's true, that's what throws them off. They're like oh like, exactly like you said, Matt, All right. Well, Dennis's newfound relief and telling the truth didn't? He would go on to tell authorities that he'd sexually assaulted no less than four women in the 70s and 80s and had gotten away with it. In February 2022, Dennis pleaded no contest and was sentenced to 35 to 50 years in prison for Andrea's murder. That's on top of his previous life sentences for the rape and murder of Doyle and the 20 years he'd gotten for the burglary of her home. Now 75 years old, Dennis is currently incarcerated at the River North Correctional Center in Virginia.
Speaker 1:Oh, so they did move him to Virginia then.
Speaker 2:He was in Virginia to begin with.
Speaker 1:Right, but wasn't his wife and kid in Michigan, or no?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was the thing.
Speaker 3:Yeah, they said fuck that they never moved him back. That's correct.
Speaker 2:They tossed that out there as a as a thing like hey man if you, if you're in prison you're in prison for this Doyle murder, this Kathleen Doyle rape and murder thing that you said. You did tell us anything about andrea's whereabouts right, but he didn't.
Speaker 1:I guess he kind of confessed over a phone call and they got that either way, they just they said you know what?
Speaker 2:we were? Just fucking with you, we're not gonna move you to michigan.
Speaker 3:Go fuck yourself oh, I got you, I got you yeah no, they, after the way that they found uh bowman's body, like you know, just wrapped in in dirty diapers and thrown and cut up like that, they were kind of like yeah yeah you ain't getting nothing, man.
Speaker 1:You gots to get yours and I gots to get mine a lot of times it is like a family member that's responsible. You know, and I wonder what this guy's like in his public life with like neighbors and friends, like they didn't really go. They had the family members that kind of talk shit on him a little bit. But the guy he worked with what they say about him like did they think something was off or was like no, he was a dennis, was just a normal guy like you know that's what they usually say on all the interviews, like oh yeah, we just you know, we had a golf tournament last week yeah, like because this guy put on a right seriously, he was in the bowling league with his friends.
Speaker 2:Oh man, we gotta do that, it to happen.
Speaker 1:Not only Nick wants in on the fourth. Okay.
Speaker 3:He told me anyway, but we could be called like Nutley's bunch. Yeah, right, yeah.
Speaker 1:But I just wonder about that with this guy, cause they didn't really go much into his life outside of like this, like, not like, what did he do? He was military, he was Navy you know what I'm trying to say, though, though, like what, what people thought of him outside of the people that really knew him?
Speaker 3:yeah, well, think about if people were like, if they thought he was that weird, there would have been more talk in the documentary like there he was just a regular guy had a wife.
Speaker 2:It's always the quiet ones such a like great guy.
Speaker 3:They adopted a daughter like this, right it's. You know, it's the all-american family, all-american america, guys can you wrap it up, oh? Sure, just in time, yeah right.
Speaker 2:So we were talking about biases earlier in slants, the reason I really tried not to rely on this Netflix series again. I was happy to watch it but I did not at all like what I thought I felt was the push or the slant or the bias of the potentials of dangers in adoption, like that's what I found that was my biggest takeaway from that show was look man, adoption is fucking dangerous. You don't know what's going to happen to your kid if you give him up for adoption. Like look at what happened to this one. This one went to a crazy fucking dude who killed his fucking daughter.
Speaker 3:Is that what you like? Really took out of it?
Speaker 2:that's what the whole thing that?
Speaker 3:that's what I got out of like a hint of that, like uh that was my biggest.
Speaker 2:Okay, that was I. Maybe it's because I just watched it and it was just it was stuck in me. That that's when I heard it once, or I felt that once. It probably polluted the rest of the show for me. But like this, kathy Turkanian is a bitch, like she is a BI itch man. Don't come back decades later and say I told you so. Or here I am a hero mother because I solved the mystery of the murder of my daughter that I gave up X number of years ago. Right, you know what I mean. Like look, good for you, great job. But don't come back. You're trying to play mother of the year. Look, fuck off. You gave your daughter up for adoption.
Speaker 1:Don't, like, don't come back here monday morning quarterback. In this shit, I get where you're coming from. But in her, in her defense, she kind of got drawn back into it when she found out that the kid was with the dna you know.
Speaker 3:so it sparked something in her, I think, and she was like i't do, or maybe she felt she didn't do something right years ago, so she wanted to make something right.
Speaker 1:Right, I get exactly what Zab's saying.
Speaker 2:I can see what Matt just said, though I can see what he's saying.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think, I think that she probably obviously wouldn't have known nothing of this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if she didn't get the DNA in the mail and and yeah, like maybe she took it too far, but in the end she ended up being right. Yeah, so I mean, if she would have been wrong, we talking a totally different story. But obviously she was on to something and maybe it was, like they say, mother's intuition, like even though she gave her up for adoption, like I think that's what feeling the whole time like oh, something bad happened like I don't think she just ran away that's what made the story.
Speaker 3:What it is, though, was the whole fact that she she did give this kid. She didn't know this kid from eve, you know, and then, all of a sudden, she gets the thing with the dna, and and I think it turned her world around she's like wait. Well then, where is this kid? Right, because it still is.
Speaker 1:I gave birth to this child, so sure I never, uh, I never even thought of that angle that you're saying. But now that you say that, I mean, I could see. But I'm wondering if anybody really did sit down and watch that and go. I'm never doing that because my kid will end up missing or dead or whatever like that like I didn't even think of that angle, honestly, but that's interesting to think yeah, that was a but.
Speaker 1:There again, as you, as you mentioned, you brought up that you've been adopted. You think that kind of like makes you look at everything to do with adoption that way, like that, it's like like that angle, or so for sure that you can see it quicker than like me or matt or somebody else that you know yeah, so I'm, uh, yeah, for sure, absolutely, I, I that, and that would be, in fact, my bias.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean? Just right, that would be. My angle is like look, bias. You know what I mean? Right, right, that would be my angle. It's like, look, I'm going to be a huge proponent of adoption, right Carrying babies to term, right Making the babies, having the babies. There are tons, tons, tons of couples out there who aren't able to conceive.
Speaker 1:And you had a very great life success story. I loved it. You got adopted and you know that you got adopted and you you know what I mean and and it's majority of the time, would you say, it turns out good. Sure, so you have one of these times, but this could have happened to anyone.
Speaker 2:This could have happened to a biological kid too. This absolutely could have happened to anybody's biological child. You can have some crazy ass, shit, crazy fucking father that's going to kill a daughter. That shit happens all of the time.
Speaker 1:Her life could have been just as bad with the birth mother.
Speaker 2:That's right, that's exactly right, or, conversely, that's right. She could have been doing traveling circus shit with Kathy Tarkanian.
Speaker 1:Right, Matt. What'd you think of it?
Speaker 3:It was just I remember you were saying something about it and I knew it was on Netflix. I didn't really check it out. Uh, the story, the story was was very interesting and I think it was with the adoption what zap was saying I I look at that angle and like, yeah, but I think the story was more about a mom who gave this kid up because she was in a situation, in the situation where her daughter ran away too. I think they were very similar what she said at the same age and so she knew, she knew that. But I think the only reason that she did get involved she's like, well, hold on, where is the kid at then?
Speaker 3:and it just, you know it was just something that I think she she did it for herself too, I think for closure, just to be like oh, I'm either gonna find this kid, you know, and and maybe I can, you know, reconnect or ignite something that we never had, or, you know, there's foul play I definitely enjoyed the, the way they did the documentary on netflix, because it had I had no idea that it was going to go the way it went I figured that the in the middle of it, like okay, maybe the parents were involved, but I had no idea the the father would turn out being basically a serial killer I mean I
Speaker 1:guess you would say what he went on to do, like the sick stuff he Like. I didn't see that angle coming at all, but I also never looked at it with the things you brought up or you know Matt brought up, and it's interesting to see somebody else's perspective on it. But I thought it was a good, interesting story and I mean at least it had some closure. It's not the ending that anybody would have wanted.
Speaker 2:But he's in jail and I'm sure he'll die there. You know they're not getting out, so they ended up cremating. Uh, andrea's remains oh yeah, this part go ahead, man, this was oh yeah this is fucked up, yeah, so they cremated this broad and they gave half of her ashes to one mother and half of her ashes to the other, and that was um bowman.
Speaker 3:I guess she was like I want to give you something and like, wrote this like big letter letter, she would be at ease. And she's like I want you to have half of the ashes.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's it. That's it. I'm sorry, you're right, it didn't come from the authorities. That's the even more fucked up part. So Brenda Bowman got all of the ashes and she said okay, kathy, you can have half. It's funny. Kathy says God, goddamn, kathy is such a fucking bitch, by the way. So Kathy says which half did I get? Is it her left half? Is it her lower half? What half is it?
Speaker 3:I know that is very morbid when you think of it that way You're a fucking moron. No, but after all the stress that that body had been through in life and death, and I guess Tarkanian was like and you're still going to put that stress that she can't be whole, yeah, why don't you put her together? It can't be complete. Yes, yeah.
Speaker 1:The ashes somewhere you can go visit it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's one of those things that makes like ghosts or like things in the air, like cause. I don't think it's ever completely set to rest Right, yeah, but it's just me.
Speaker 1:That's what happens after two weeks. I totally forgot about that, ending with the ashes and stuff yeah, but don't you think like if something's, I'm sorry, I'm trying not to laugh here, but that's fucking hilarious no, that's the paranormal yeah he's like dude.
Speaker 2:This is how ghosts are made, man. This is what. This is how ghosts come about. Man, you start splitting up ashes.
Speaker 3:It's not right. You don't do that because because I don't think it's, it's completely. The soul's not at rest. It's like get my other half back, man I don't know it can't go that way. It could be. Yeah, yeah, I believe in a soul. I believe that there is things that disturb. It's like the headless horseman, yeah, but there's in in death. I, I think, if you're not released right way like you, can still be caught on this earth.
Speaker 1:I don't know.
Speaker 3:Yeah, which is like well, we have always learned about that too in the multiverse.
Speaker 2:So, you're talking about purgatory.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but I don't think it's like a. I mean it's purgatory in the sense that they tell about it. But I think if you're not like truly at rest on this earth, like I don't think you are released into the next dimension, whatever you believe, shit, crap. I just looked at the time.
Speaker 2:Speaking of released.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, we gotta release this episode online.
Speaker 1:I know it is actually coming out in a couple days Plus. I want to watch Penn State, ohio State.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's at 12 o'clock, so yeah.
Speaker 1:I think I have golf today, yeah, so we hope you're enjoying the podcast. Zapp, thanks for writing that up.
Speaker 3:Hey, thanks, great job, yes, good job, good job and, uh, we'll be back next week with a vintage cinema review and after that back to true crime. So you guys got anything else, I got nothing. I guess that's it for now. So we'll catch you where. On the flip side, if we don't see you sooner, we'll see you later. Peace, thanks for hanging out in the old dirty basement. If you dig our theme music, like we do, check out the tsunami experiment, find them on facebook.
Speaker 1:Their music is available streaming on spotify and apple and where great music is available you can find us at old dirty basement on facebook and instagram and at old dirty basement podcast on tiktok peace we outie 5000 Bye.